Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x06 - "Lost in Translation"

[Kamen Rider Blade]

And how many screaming aliens get fed through the metaphorical wood chipper while you're trying to get the malfunctioning controls back on-line so you can methodically initiate a gradual shutdown procedure?

Then find a way to stop the wood-chipper from working, even if it means damaging it partially, then dragging the station out of the nursery.

There are ways to go about it, even brutish ways like damaging the collector parts.

Not necessarily. That's how alternate timelines are created, but that doesn't change that he would gladly take it on the chin anyway, because putting a quick end to a machine that is literally killing a species takes precedence to saving the machine, as it should.

I understand why he did it, I have no qualm with that.

But upper brass might not think so highly of it

But whatevers, he knows his future, he'll be fine.

 

[Amaris]

Then find a way to stop the wood-chipper from working, even if it means damaging it partially, then dragging the station out of the nursery.

There are ways to go about it, even brutish ways like damaging the collector parts.

Every moment you're not stopping the collector it's killing this species. Trying to save a piece of equipment over the lives of an entire species is wrongheaded thinking.

Again, it's a post scarcity society. If your values in a post scarcity society is "save the equipment, we can use it later" and the end result is more innocents die while you try to save that machine for your own benefit, then you would deserve whatever harsh judgment would come to you at the hands of this species, because you go from unknowingly committing a genocide to actively allowing it to save materiel that you can reproduce at little cost if necessary.

 

[Yistaan]

Again, it's a post scarcity society.

Strictly speaking that's never been confirmed. We know money is abolished. We also know that the "poverty is abolished" line is only for the Federation, and that's only if you define escaping poverty strictly speaking as you at least live in a trailer sized home and have a replicator for food and clothing.

Everything else in Trek indicates that resources can and do get scarce, including dilithium and valuable technical equipment like said space station. Not that Pike was wrong to destroy the space station to save the aliens, but it will almost definitely incur a severe resource loss to the Fed. And it's not so much a matter of just replicating the station materials again, as that likely requires a large amount of power (presumably the power required for replicating food for all Fed citizens is already allocated or relatively speaking doesn't require that much power).

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Every moment you're not stopping the collector it's killing this species. Trying to save a piece of equipment over the lives of an entire species is wrongheaded thinking.

Again, it's a post scarcity society. If your values in a post scarcity society is "save the equipment, we can use it later" and the end result is more innocents die while you try to save that machine for your own benefit, then you would deserve whatever harsh judgment would come to you at the hands of this species, because you go from unknowingly committing a genocide to actively allowing it to save materiel that you can reproduce at little cost if necessary.

I highly doubt a large facility like that comes at "Little cost". Even in a "Post Scarcity Society".
Those types of giant refinerys are ALWAYS huge budget, huge resource costs, huge time & man power investments.

It's not something trivial like mass producing a childs toy.

You only get "Post Scarcity Society" by being resource efficient and rationing every investment in time / man power / projects / resources.

You can't afford to be wasteful in a "Post Scarcity Society" or else you start wasting resources and your resources will eventually become Scarce with enough waste.

 

[Trekker4747]

• Paul Wesley's Kirk still sucks. There was no reason to have him there, we didn't even see the Farragut. Someone from the main cast should have been the focus, instead of Kirk again

Pretty much it. He's not a Kirk. No vibe of Kirk from him at all, not even on the spectrum. It doesn't need to be a Shatner impersonation or even a Pine impersonation but there needs to be *some* Kirk vibe and it isn't there. He out-right is a shut-off to enjoying the episode he's in. He's not any level of Kirk. He's an understudy of an understudy of a Kirk.

Wesley may be a fine actor. Can't say, I've not seen him in anything, he does good as "a" character here; but that he's supposed to be James T. Kirk makes him not work. He's a heavy load of weight dragging down the episode he's in.

 

[Supervisor 194]

You only get a "post-scarcity society" when magic replicators are invented

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

You only get a "post-scarcity society" when magic replicators are invented

Even Replicators requires massive amounts of Energy, Raw Matter Stock, access to a large library of Replication Patterns, and regular maintenance & upgrades.

It's never ever that easy as you would want to state it to be.

 

[Yistaan]

You only get a "post-scarcity society" when magic replicators are invented

Those still require power.

 

[Amaris]

Strictly speaking that's never been confirmed. We know money is abolished. We also know that the "poverty is abolished" line is only for the Federation, and that's only if you define escaping poverty strictly speaking as you at least live in a trailer sized home and have a replicator for food and clothing.

Everything else in Trek indicates that resources can and do get scarce, including dilithium and valuable technical equipment like said space station. Not that Pike was wrong to destroy the space station to save the aliens, but it will almost definitely incur a severe resource loss to the Fed. And it's not so much a matter of just replicating the station materials again, as that likely requires a large amount of power (presumably the power required for replicating food for all Fed citizens is already allocated or relatively speaking doesn't require that much power).

It hasn't been confirmed, but it is evident. Hell, the world we live in now could be post-scarcity if we changed our modes of production, but that's another argument for another forum.

I highly doubt a large facility like that comes at "Little cost". Even in a "Post Scarcity Society".
Those types of giant refinerys are ALWAYS huge budget, huge resource costs, huge time & man power investments.

It's not something trivial like mass producing a childs toy.

You only get "Post Scarcity Society" by being resource efficient and rationing every investment in time / man power / projects / resources.

You can't afford to be wasteful in a "Post Scarcity Society" or else you start wasting resources and your resources will eventually become Scarce with enough waste.

You're literally arguing in favor of killing more of the aliens in an effort to save the equipment.

"Durn near lost a $20 hand cart."

 

[Noname Given]

I FULLY Concur, such a waste of resources.

Not every nebula is going to have Life-forms living in the Deuterium.

Just tow the Deuterium Collection array to another Stellar Nursery.

That seems SO wasteful and a unnecessary strike against Captain Pike.

Yes, stopping the Deuterium Collection that hurts the Deutrium Aliens is all fine and stuff.

But blowing up the array when it can be towed to another system?

-__-


There's plenty of time in the future for all sorts of "Shenanigans".

In the episode the dialogue stated they couldn't shut it down, or vent the material it had already collected. Pella and Una tried, and Pella postulated the sabotaging Lt. managed to do more damage to the station than they realized; and Uhura was stating that they were screaming that they were being killed.

So, Pike decided to 'release' them and stop the station by blowing it up. (And he did so not knowing how Starfleet Command would react, but decided it was the better choice.)

 

[Captain Jollydark]

I'm sure they'll reference the Tarsus massacre eventually, but I don't find it odd that Kirk wouldn't bring up a genocidal massacre within five minutes of meeting someone.

"Hi, my name's Greg. Pleased to meet you. Did I mention that I was in NYC on 9/11?"

Plus, I thought most people didn't know he was a survivor. The names of the survivors were not shared with the public or press? Something like that?

 

[fireproof78]

Oh well, Pike is going to take the blame from the upper brass on this.

Good. He did his job in saving lives.

Plus, I thought most people didn't know he was a survivor. The names of the survivors were not shared with the public or press? Something like that?

At four years old? Probably not.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

You're literally arguing in favor of killing more of the aliens in an effort to save the equipment.

You're still going to find a way of shutting it down to save them.

But you can't just magically go about destroying your own equipment every time somebody tells you they need you to do it.

That causes ALOT of long term issues.

 

[Unique]

In the episode the dialogue stated they couldn't shut it down, or vent the material it had already collected. Pella and Una tried, and Pella postulated the sabotaging Lt. managed to do more damage to the station than they realized; and Uhura was stating that they were screaming that they were being killed.

So, Pike decided to 'release' them and stop the station by blowing it up. (And he did so not knowing how Starfleet Command would react, but decided it was the better choice.)

How can you know that blowing up the station won’t kill them, though?

 

[Amaris]

You're still going to find a way of shutting it down to save them.

But you can't just magically go about destroying your own equipment every time somebody tells you they need you to do it.

That causes ALOT of long term issues.

You know what else causes long term issues? Knowingly killing an entire species because you want to save the equipment that's killing them because it might set you back a little.

 

[Noname Given]

How can you know that blowing up the station won’t kill them, though?

When you can't shutdown the station, and someone is telling you that they say they're dying - yes, maybe you can't save those already in the refining process, but you prevent further death. Plus at the end, the Aliens communicated to Uhura the action worked and those that were still there were okay. There's no 100% 'correct solution' here - there's the solution that ends the situation and hopefully prevents further harm.

 

[Mudd]

It's a TV show.

 

[fireproof78]

When you can't shutdown the station, and someone is telling you that they say they're dying - yes, maybe you can't save those already in the refining process, but you prevent further death. Plus at the end, the Aliens communicated to Uhura the action worked and those that were still there were okay. There's no 100% 'correct solution' here - there's the solution that ends the situation and hopefully prevents further harm.

Taking the action that reduces the most harm and saves the most lives?

How can anyone be mad about that? Like, damn, how cold and calloused could the episode be if it it was like "Don't worry, it's shutting down. We can't hear the screams. It's fine."

 

[Nerys Myk]

I devoured ERB's books as a teen back in the seventies. Read pretty much all of his SF-flavored books, including the Caprona trilogy, The Moon Maid, The Monster Men, etc. And read my fair share of the Tarzan novels as well, starting with a couple of battered old hardcovers I found in my grandfather's attic.

But, in all honestly, I discovered those books after watching the old Johnny Weissmuller movies on TV, and the new color movies at the drive-in. Can't remember a time when I wasn't used to the idea of multiple different actors playing Tarzan. Throw in the original novels and the Gold Key comics and the Big Little Book, and, yeah, Tarzan always came in different flavors.

Just like James T. Kirk these days.

Same here. I don't think I read any of his Westerns or Historicals, but all of the SF stuff. He also pioneered the "Shared Univere" as Mars, Venus, Pellucidar and Tarzan crossover via the Gridley Wave.

The Weissmuller films were my first exposure too. Then Ron Ely's show. And finally the novels.

 

[cooleddie74]

I mean, this a franchise where the very existence of the Prime universe depends for possibly all of time and eternity on two versions of Lazarus fighting one another inside an interdimensional corridor, and that brutal fistfight ensures that all the reality we see in TOS and the rest of the franchise going forward doesn't go up in a colossal matter-antimatter explosion. At this point blowing up a deuterium collector with living deuterium creatures in the gases of the nebula is just, well, Star Trek.