Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x05 - "Charades"

[Unique]

Also shout-out to that fairy-tale episode from season 1, where he plays an absolute cowardly wimp as a background character.

I know going back to a straight, white male leading guy is a bit of a step backwards. But I love how Pike is the absolute positive counter example to toxic masculinity and cringe "tough guys". And still (or because?) manly as hell. Go be proud of your cooking, Sir!

I would say that ruling someone out for a role/job based on their gender, race, or sexuality qualifies as a “step backwards”.

And I agree that Pike is a very positive example of manhood. He’s a great leader, in large part because he has the heart of a humble servant. He literally serves others, and is destined to do so at great cost to himself.

 

[Greg Cox]

I always assumed Khan and Chekov had met offscreen.

Exactly. There were 430 crew members aboard the Enterprise during "Space Seed." Just because Chekov wasn't assigned to the bridge yet doesn't mean he wasn't already posted elsewhere on the ship during that incident.

We don't actually know when Chekov joined the crew, only when he started showing up on the bridge. From the evidence, we can deduce that he came aboard sometime after "Mudd's Women" (since he doesn't recognize Mudd later on) but before "Space Seed" (since Khan famously recognizes him).

For what it's worth, I made sure Khan met Chekov in the novels. Chekov assists in transporting Khan, his followers, and their supplies down to Ceti Alpha V in the days following "Space Seed."

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I meant to upload this last week, but it's where my mind goes whenever I see characters playing charades.

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[fireproof78]

I always assumed Khan and Chekov had met offscreen.

Not on screen, not canon, as many are found to say.

The interaction just never sat right with me in how it is presented. A minor quibble in an otherwise decent film, but it's still there.

 

[Set Harth]

Not on screen, not canon, as many are found to say.

And the obvious response to that is so played out I'm not even going to say it.

 

[Mr Awe]

Pike does his job very well as a soft approach leader. He's not loud, he's not boisterous, he is confident in his people and their ability to do their job.

He reminds me of Colonel Potter in all the ways that matter.

Yes! That's a great analogy. Very similar in nature.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Not on screen, not canon, as many are found to say.

Khan never forgets a face. Khan remembers Chekov. Therefore, logically speaking, Khan must have MET Chekov. It's obvious; it doesn't need to be shown onscreen.

Now the specific circumstances under which they met? That's variable. But they must have met somehow.

(the most natural explanation was that Chekov was a security guard. The fact that he is security chief in TMP would tend to bear this out. I agree, that isn't canon. But the mere fact that they did meet, somehow, MUST be.)

 

[Mr Awe]

Honestly, the mistake is that the writers keep trying to make real history and current events match STAR TREK history and current events.

Yeah, I've never seen the need for trying to make the ST universe and ours match up. They're similar but not the same universe. I'm good with that.

I have no problems with what they've done (e.g., Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow). But it feels unnecessary.

 

[fireproof78]

Khan never forgets a face. Khan remembers Chekov. Therefore, logically speaking, Khan must have MET Chekov. It's obvious; it doesn't need to be shown onscreen.

Says you. I don't agree.

the most natural explanation was that Chekov was a security guard. The fact that he is security chief in TMP would tend to bear this out. I agree, that isn't canon. But the mere fact that they did meet, somehow, MUST be.

As Spock would say, "Possible."

That I don't trust Khan probably adds to my skepticism.

And the obvious response to that is so played out I'm not even going to say it.

Exactly.

But, again, the idea that it must have occurred is fine, and dandy. It's just an interesting line in the sand when it comes to canon arguments.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

That I don't trust Khan probably adds to my skepticism.

He has no reason to lie. AND he remembers Chekov's name as well.

Says you. I don't agree.

Then explain it.

 

[fireproof78]

Then explain it.

Khan is wrong.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Khan is wrong.

Unlikely. As part of his genetic engineering he has a photographic memory. He can't NOT remember.

 

[fireproof78]

Unlikely. As part of his genetic engineering he has a photographic memory. He can't NOT remember.

He can't? I trust that's explicitly stated then? So certain are you.

Again, it could be possible, but the idea that it must be is something I disagree with, strongly. People have lots of personal theories and that's fine but the certainty I don't have.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

He can't? I trust that's explicitly stated then? So certain are you.

Yes, because I actually remember the scene when Khan is in sickbay and reads through the Enterprise's computer records at lightning speed. Does that sound like somebody who would forget a name or a face? Thought not.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes, because I actually remember the scene when Khan is in sickbay and reads through the Enterprise's computer records at lightning speed. Does that sound like somebody who would forget a name or a face? Thought not.

A face? Yes.

Yes it does. Becomes that's two different parts of the brain.

ETA: this isn't to say that I don't think it is possible, since I do. I just lack the absolute certainty that it occurred as described by posters here. Yours is a great conjecture that would work well in a novel or other such fiction. But it isn't a certainty.

 

[Mudd]

Khan is wrong.

Agreed.

 

[Noname Given]

He has no reason to lie. AND he remembers Chekov's name as well.



Then explain it.

STII:TWoK OBVIOULY takes place in an alternate timeline and continuity. Further cemented by Khan (who you said has no reason to lie) says specifically: "On Earth 200 years ago, I was a Prince, with power over millions..."

2282 - 200 = 2082 *

*- So, this all takes place in the 'new' SNW timeline/continuity...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Who knows, we might have been witnessing the timeline changing during that scene! Kind of like Hypertime from DC Comics.

this isn't to say that I don't think it is possible, since I do. I just lack the absolute certainty that it occurred as described by posters here. Yours is a great conjecture that would work well in a novel or other such fiction. But it isn't a certainty.

Fair enough.

 

[Pauln6]

He has no reason to lie. AND he remembers Chekov's name as well.



Then explain it.

Khan had access to the ship's files. He read Chekov's file - with a photo. Simples.

 

[cooleddie74]

2285 - "two hundred years ago" = closer to the retconned time of the Eugenics Wars than the 1990s, that's for sure. And since the technology that created Khan and the Augments still comes from the 1990s or even earlier that still means he IS a product of the 1990s, just no longer ruling a quarter of the population of the world in that decade.