Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x01 - "The Broken Circle"

[jackoverfull]

Point 1. Until DIS s3 decided to go with the Burn, it wasn't canon that Romulans used dilithium in their engines. That was my entire point about canon. It makes no sense to argue that it was part of canon AFTER the Burn was developed.

we don’t know that. Their engines were pretty much a mystery to the federation until way into TNG and even then it was not addressed if dilithium was used or not.
It must be pointed out that dilithium was extremely valuable in TOS but quite cheap to make in TNG, so it’s no surprise either way: while not using it would have been very notable in the 23rd century, by the 24th it would have been just a side note; on the other hand if they did use it it would have been equally unremarkable, like saying that an engine today relies on petroleum.

Point 2. The Romulans were only recluses against our side of their territory. And with enough internal space they could sustain plenty of interstellar trade.

we don’t know that either.

 

[shakham]

So they were more like mercenaries than actual soldiers with any real honor.

That should make them even more dangerous when engaging, or run away when choosing not to (pay/money not worth it).

It’s very possible during that sequence many mercenaries ran the other way.

A physical battle isn’t just about strength or skill, but also about comfortably crossing lines.

I always have a morbid curiosity about people's perspectives on art.

I still discuss Star Wars and what could have been done better with that film. That film has been out a mite longer than this episode.

I guess I never spoke Star Wars.

 

[fireproof78]

A physical battle isn’t just about strength or skill, but also about comfortably crossing lines.

Which M'Benga was more comfortable with than his foes.

I guess I never spoke Star Wars.

Ok. Talking TOS or TNG which are both decades old by now.

 

[Grizzlor]

7 - It was an exciting episode and a good way to return to the small screen for the show, but come on, stealing the Enterprise, again??? You just did this in Picard, and Star Trek III was literally that plot.

 

[MikHutch]

You gotta have characters rebelling against the chain of command!

 

[Sci]

Point 1. Until DIS s3 decided to go with the Burn, it wasn't canon that Romulans used dilithium in their engines.

And it wasn't canon that they didn't. DIS S3 is canon, and DIS S3 made it canonical that either the Romulan singularity drive used dilithium or that singularity drives were no longer in common usage in the 31st Century.

That was my entire point about canon. It makes no sense to argue that it was part of canon AFTER the Burn was developed.

That's not what I argued. What I argued was that DIS S3 established a new canonical fact which did not contradict any previous canonical facts.

Point 2. The Romulans were only recluses against our side of their territory.

That is absolutely not canonical. The only references we have are to them isolating against everyone.

And with enough internal space they could sustain plenty of interstellar trade.

Or, a much simpler explanation is that they used dilithium in their FTL systems too.

Point 3. I didn't ignore the "dramatic heart" of the story. I found it boring, last minute, and poorly done. And I don't really understand how you can equate "ignoring" a story point and being rude to someone you don't even know.

I find it rude when people hyper-fixate on technobabble and continuity trivia while completely ignoring the actual story being told.

 

[Ometiklan]

we don’t know that. ...
we don’t know that either.

Exactly. That is entirely my point. We don't know either of these points. There was no evidence prior to DIS S3 that Romulan engines used dilithium. The only evidence about their engines were that they used confined singularities, which to me suggests they don't use dilithum (because the generally understood use is to moderate the M/AM reaction). So the writers of DIS S3's "Burn" developed 1) the cause being "dilithium going inert all over the galaxy" due to some kind of emotional coupling with a child (which is about a far fetched as galaxy-spanning-mycelial-networks and giant-network-traversing-beastly-space-tardigrades), 2) that no one of any significance in the Alpha/Beta quadrants' known space developed a working alternative to a dilithium-using FTL transportation tech in 900+ years, and 3) retconned that the Romulans used dilithium when the only known example of their engine tech in canon didn't indicate the use of it. The writers did all that instead of something more plausible, known to cause the very isolationist effect they were looking for plotwise, and already established in canon: the omega molecule. Sure, maybe I am annoyed that they didn't go with this very plausible alternative, but I don't think I am unjustified that they took a very hard and roundabout path instead of the easy and direct one.

As for the second "we don't know that either." That too is my point. Fans (e.g., Sci, previously) also assume Romulans were isolationist verses everyone around them. I agree with you that we don't know if they were or weren't. We only really know that they were not communicative/involved with the Federation our allied entities. My argument was that the Romulans might have just been isolationist with us. We know they controlled a vast interstellar empire and thus might have easily had contact with other species and groups that were not in contact with us. Afterall, they had been involved in a major war with the Federation, and then a brief period of skirmishing (TOS); they might have just wanted to be isolated from us. Upon their return in "the Neutral Zone" they did indicate that they had been occupied with other things. Those things very well could have involved interaction and trade (or wars) with other groups. I don't argue that we know this for sure, but that it is possible and not ruled out by what little we do know about their "isolationist" period.

 

[Sci]

Exactly. That is entirely my point. We don't know either of these points. There was no evidence prior to DIS S3 that Romulan engines used dilithium.

And there was also no evidence they didn't. And now DIS S3 has established that they did. So there's no continuity issue.

The only evidence about their engines were that they used confined singularities, which to me suggests they don't use dilithum (because the generally understood use is to moderate the M/AM reaction).

"To me" is doing a lot of work there. Nothing canonically established that singularity drives didn't use dilithium. Indeed, if dilithium's function is to regulate the energy produced by the M/AM reaction, there's no real reason it couldn't be used to regulate the energy produced by a singularity. This is consistent with NEM, which established explicitly that Romulus colonized Remus to exploit its dilithium resources on a massive industrial level.

So the writers of DIS S3's "Burn" developed 1) the cause being "dilithium going inert all over the galaxy" due to some kind of emotional coupling with a child (which is about a far fetched as galaxy-spanning-mycelial-networks and giant-network-traversing-beastly-space-tardigrades), 2) that no one of any significance in the Alpha/Beta quadrants' known space developed a working alternative to a dilithium-using FTL transportation tech in 900+ years, and 3) retconned that the Romulans used dilithium when the only known example of their engine tech in canon didn't indicate the use of it.

Except, once again, it is highly implausible that they would have colonized the Remans to turn them all into dilithium-mining slaves if their ships didn't need dilithium. So canon pre-DIS did imply that Romulans used dilithium, even if it did not explicitly establish it.

 

[Cyrus]

Finally saw this and it was fantastic.
I wasn't sure about Carol Kane as chief engineer but she was great.
Peck as usual is nailing the Spock character.

 

[jackoverfull]

This is consistent with NEM, which established explicitly that Romulus colonized Remus to exploit its dilithium resources on a massive industrial level

thank you. Here is this hard evidence that dilithium was valuable to Romulans, hinting that they used it, likely in their engines.

 

[MikHutch]

Finally saw this and it was fantastic.
I wasn't sure about Carol Kane as chief engineer but she was great.
Peck as usual is nailing the Spock character.

Is that her original accent?

 

[cooleddie74]

No, Carol Kane sounds different but it is a variation on her go-to "ethnic" or "foreign" accent and not all that far removed from her Simka voice on Taxi.

 

[MikHutch]

No, Carol Kane sounds different but it is a variation on her go-to "ethnic" or "foreign" accent and not all that far removed from her Simka voice on Taxi.

Ok, ty. I never saw Taxi so I just assumed I wasn't familiar with her accent. Tbh I thought she was going to be an el-Aurian

 

[AntonyF]

And the problem with that is?
We still use slag today that dates back centuries, why can’t the future use slang that dates back centuries?

Because pro trip is very current, very arrogant. Very American. It's very current, it's not old language.

If I get YouTube Influencer vibe then you've broken the immersion.

 

[fireproof78]

"ProTips" got their start in a '90s gaming magazine.

Now I know why I used it in the 90s.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Because pro trip is very current, very arrogant. Very American. It's very current, it's not old language.

If I get YouTube Influencer vibe then you've broken the immersion.

Bold.

 

[cooleddie74]

Pro Trip was an awful teen road movie.

 

[fireproof78]

Pro Trip was an awful teen road movie.

There are definitely better road trip moves out there.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Pro Trip was an awful teen road movie.

But a great episode of Enterprise.

 

[cooleddie74]

"Precious Cargo" definitely isn't that one.