Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x01 - "The Broken Circle"

[Greg Cox]

The former change is cosmetic and inconsequential (relatively speaking, yes I know it's DNA alteration).

The latter temporarily turns you into an augment (in comparison to regular humans anyway). It's a functional rather than cosmetic difference, like making your airplane actually able to do lightspeed as opposed to just painting a starship on it. That's kind of a big deal. I'd assume the author of the Eugenics Wars books could at least understand why others would see that as a bit beyond the cosmetic DNA alterations needed to infiltrate aliens in the first episode.

They're both technobabble sci-fi gimmicks employed by the very same characters. For the purposes of an exciting (if, okay, overlong) fight sequence of the sort we've seen on STAR TREK since Kirk was taking on Klingons and Gorns and Khan back in the day.

Don't really see a qualitative difference here.

Then again, I've never pretended to be a Hard-SF guy. I'm a modern-day pulp writer at heart.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

That's good! My problem with it is that it seemed to be a magic deus ex thing just to get them out of the crisis, and then it would be cheap, uncreative, or "lazy writing", though I wouldn't call it that. But if there's more to it, it can turn into something good.

I think it was more of an excuse to have the actor for Doctor M'Benga to show of his IRL BJJ skills and to give Nurse Chapel some action scenes.

Both Actors like action scenes and wants more.

Is it because she's a woman of somewhat smaller frame? Is it because she's a nurse? One of my best friends is a small, blonde nurse, not much different then Jess Bush in terms of size, and in her off hours, she's an enforcer on her local hockey team. She tough as nails and hits like a ton of bricks. So don't think that someone can't be tough just because they're small.

I concur, just look at Pro Wrestling, plenty of pint sized Men/Women who are tough as nails and can hit incredibly hard.

Just look at any match with Rey Mysterio Jr. According to 3rd party sources on his actual height, he's only 5' 2". Yet he packs a wallop and would beat down most men way larger than him.

Look at John Silver AKA Johnny Hungee.

Spoiler: Over View on Johnny Hungee's career so far.

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The dude is only 5' 5", but don't let his short stature fool you, he's POWERFUL as heck and can defeat most people.

I've pointed out at least twice now that Chapel & M'Benga were fighting Humans and Klingons and that they were the dregs of the local society, not professional fighters.

And it's 2 vs X amount of combatants.

They needed the drugs to withstand the amount of hits they would take from a swarm of enemy combatants in CQB/CQC

It's all very logical, fighting 1 vs 1 is one thing, fighting 1 vs X is a whole other kettle of fish.

And usually the odds are against you.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They're both technobabble sci-fi gimmicks employed by the very same characters. For the purposes of an exciting (if, okay, overlong) fight sequence of the sort we've seen on STAR TREK since Kirk was taking on Klingons and Gorns and Khan back in the day.

Don't really see a qualitative difference here.

Then again, I've never pretended to be a Hard-SF guy. I'm a modern-day pulp writer at heart.

And that's why we like you.

 

[cooleddie74]

I mean, he had Khan in Gary Seven and Roberta Lincoln's office. The guy knows what we'd like to read.

 

[Greg Cox]

I mean, he had Khan in Gary Seven and Roberta Lincoln's office. The guy knows what we'd like to read.

Confession: I often had the soundtrack to OUR MAN FLINT playing in the background while writing Seven and Roberta, just to capture that whole sixties spy-fi vibe.

For Pete's sake, I grew up on Emma Peel fighting Cybernauts. Chapel getting a biotech boost to trounce Klingons does not faze me.

 

[cooleddie74]

The throat patch that let Khan speak in Seven's voice when interacting with the Beta 5 computer was a great touch.

 

[bdub76]

Quark killed a Klingon for cryin' out loud.

It was DS9, where the Klingons had their Klingon cards revoked.

 

[Mudd]

Haven't we seen Klingons fighting Humans, Bajorans, Trill and Kahless knows who else and not wiping the floor with them?

Of course. They were no better in a bar fight in Tribbles than anyone else. No stronger, no better fighters. And of course Kirk put a few out of commission in "Errand of Mercy" without any especial trouble. If anyone's insisting that they're better than humans they're blowing smoke.

 

[HotRod]

We haven't actually since TOS, where Trouble with Tribbles did indeed establish humans and Klingons on equal strength level.

TNG and afterwards then said that Klingons were a gazillion times stronger than humans or whatever.

But we have seen Klingons fighting many times since TOS.

Aside from the fights in "Trouble with Tribbles" and "Day of the Dove," we see Archer fighting Klingons hand to hand in both "Judgment" and "Bounty."

We see Captain Picard fighting off a pair of Klingon assassins in "Sins of the Father."

We see Humans, Trill, Cardassians, and Bajorans fighting in "The Way of the Warrior."

Hell, we even see Tom Paris fighting a Klingon in "Prophecy."

This whole notion that Klingons are vastly superior to other races is absolute bullshit.

 

[fireproof78]

They're both technobabble sci-fi gimmicks employed by the very same characters. For the purposes of an exciting (if, okay, overlong) fight sequence of the sort we've seen on STAR TREK since Kirk was taking on Klingons and Gorns and Khan back in the day.

Don't really see a qualitative difference here.

Then again, I've never pretended to be a Hard-SF guy. I'm a modern-day pulp writer at heart.

Indeed. I don't see much difference at all in the two. Both alter DNA and offer advantages either in subterfuge or in combat.

This whole notion that Klingons are vastly superior to other races is absolute bullshit.

Indeed. Starting to think that there are some Klingon misinformation being spread by Klingon sympathizers around here...

 

[Mudd]

But we have seen Klingons fighting many times since TOS.

Aside from the fights in "Trouble with Tribbles" and "Day of the Dove," we see Archer fighting Klingons hand to hand in both "Judgment" and "Bounty."

We see Captain Picard fighting off a pair of Klingon assassins in "Sins of the Father."

We see Humans, Trill, Cardassians, and Bajorans fighting in "The Way of the Warrior."

Hell, we even see Tom Paris fighting a Klingon in "Prophecy."

This whole notion that Klingons are vastly superior to other races is absolute bullshit.

By going back to TOS as its touchstone, SNW is resetting a lot of bullshit.

 

[comsol]

Confession: I often had the soundtrack to OUR MAN FLINT playing in the background while writing Seven and Roberta, just to capture that whole sixties spy-fi vibe.

Man, I love that soundtrack.

 

[DaveyNY]

Klingon's are just tougher to put down because of their bony exterior and redundant bodily functions.
They aren't necessarily stronger or faster than a human.

 

[Yistaan]

This whole notion that Klingons are vastly superior to other races is absolute

Maybe we should blame Worf for the propaganda.

TNG - Clues

Worf: There are very few individuals on board who could have broken my wrist. Commander Data is one of those individuals.

Keep in mind Worf said this while serving on the Enterprise-D, considered by the Borg as of Best of Both Worlds to be the "strongest ship of the Federation fleet", crewed by officers trained to meet demanding physical and mental standards.

Also, nowhere does anyone bring up the possibility in the episode that someone pumped up on 24th century steroids could have broken Worf's wrist. If so, then everyone on the ship could have been a suspect.

 

[Sci]

As for the serum, Starfleet has become: how can you cheat to get in and stay in? And what can you get away with once you get in?

It's hand-to-hand combat in a life or death situation, not a sports competition. It's not "cheating."

The former change is cosmetic and inconsequential (relatively speaking, yes I know it's DNA alteration).

The latter temporarily turns you into an augment (in comparison to regular humans anyway).

Uh, no. Letting you hit harder and suppressing pain is a way less big deal than literally changing your DNA. PCP doesn't turn you into a temporary alien.

That's good! My problem with it is that it seemed to be a magic deus ex thing just to get them out of the crisis,

I mean, the serum wore off and they were overpowered. They only survived by locking themselves into the airlock chamber. That's hardly a deus-ex-machina.

I'm really struggling to understand the issues people are having with Chapel fighting off the Klingons.

I don't know about every such poster, but for some of them? Let's call a spade a spade: Seeing a woman and a black guy kick ass makes them uncomfortable.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Maybe we should blame Worf for the propaganda.

TNG - Clues

Worf: There are very few individuals on board who could have broken my wrist. Commander Data is one of those individuals.

Keep in mind Worf said this while serving on the Enterprise-D, considered by the Borg as of Best of Both Worlds to be the "strongest ship of the Federation fleet", crewed by officers trained to meet demanding physical and mental standards.

Also, nowhere does anyone bring up the possibility in the episode that someone pumped up on 24th century steroids could have broken Worf's wrist. If so, then everyone on the ship could have been a suspect.

Decades later it is time to accept: Worf was not the most reliable narrator, when it came to Klingons

 

[AntonyF]

What story?
Which of those is unbelievable for a character we know next to nothing about?
Unprofessional? When? Where? Why?

I didn't say it was unbelievable, I said I didn't buy it. There's a difference. Bacon is loved by many but I don't eat it. And I typically just don't like characters that start to feel excellent in every field. Lack of fallibility.

As to the unprofessional I can't rehash that. I can't remember exactly what it was now. But something last season felt off to me.

 

[AntonyF]

I don't know about every such poster, but for some of them? Let's call a spade a spade: Seeing a woman and a black guy kick ass makes them uncomfortable.

You can fuck right off with your dog whistling. You're talking to Trek fans some of whom in my case have been watching it for decades.

Trek fans have argued over Trek for years. It's IDIC. It's what we do. But you you don't get in 2023 to come in and shut down opinions you don't like by playing misogyny and racism cards. You don't.

This fandom is better than that.

 

[Yistaan]

I don't know about every such poster, but for some of them? Let's call a spade a spade: Seeing a woman and a black guy kick ass makes them uncomfortable.

What made me uncomfortable was that 2 protagonists who we're supposed to be positively invested in felt that keeping what is obviously a dangerous and illegal steroid around and then using it--look, if we had a scene earlier on where M'Benga and Chapel were training in the gym, then later on at the planet M'Benga says, "OK ready to put that special training to use?" and they went beating up Klingons, I would've been the first to be cheering.

Performance enhancing drugs (or just mind/body altering dangerous drugs in life) are still an issue in the real world. Lance Armstrong could possibly have given himself cancer doping to the extent we now know he did (there's no conclusive proof but the timeline matches up).

If Star Trek is going to be tackling dangerous performance enhancing drugs, it needs to be done respectfully and with full coverage of the dangers, etc. It's NOT supposed to be a "kick-ass" moment, so yes, it made me uncomfortable. No, it's not because the people involved were a woman and a black man.

If anything, having the first Trek lead black doctor be casually carrying around these kinds of obviously illegal drugs is itself an unfortunate racial stereotype and a massive disservice to the M'Benga character, so I hope they provide some really good explanation soon in future episodes for why he has this around.

 

[valden]

I think it was more of an excuse to have the actor for Doctor M'Benga to show of his IRL BJJ skills and to give Nurse Chapel some action scenes.

Both Actors like action scenes and wants more.

.

ah, that it is. the excuse. hence the best way to go into bad story telling.

reminds me of star trek into darkness when jj abrams chose to have the enterprise rise from the sea, even if he failed to explain the logical science behind it. However it was visually cool to watch. but made no sense.

Chapal, a nurse should not be doing action scene anymore than Abrams should ever put the enterprise inside the ocean. Also Bush was not all that convincing in it either, maybe it was the obvious body double or her small size or maybe the past star trek standard was too different given Seven of Nine/Uhura/Burnham doing action scenes in the past, both those female characters fitted the role of action heroines, so no excuse there. it works there.

I dont know much about the actors, but when i read their interviews it always feels like they are the ones asking for something or deciding something. which is kind of weird because the jobs of actors is to follow the director and what is written in the script. unless the actor is a producer too like say tom cruise or sarah jessica parker, it is not the job of actos to dictate the direction of a story.