I think its the first time fights between Klingons and unaugment humans made sense, they keep telling us Klingons are 10 times as strong humans, no way even most trained male soldiers unenhanced should win a fight with one, might as well be wrestling Superman. But chemically enhanced a human to temporarily boost your duriblity and strength to as strong or much stronger then a Klingon (or Vulcan), then it starts to make sense.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x01 - "The Broken Circle"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I think its the first time fights between Klingons and unaugment humans made sense, they keep telling us Klingons are 10 times as strong humans, no way even most trained male soldiers unenhanced should win a fight with one, might as well be wrestling Superman. But chemically enhanced a human to temporarily boost your duriblity and strength to as strong or much stronger then a Klingon (or Vulcan), then it starts to make sense.
No it was weird that races without superhuman strength were able to go toe toe with races that had massive super human strength, Klingons, Vulcans, and maybe Jem'hadar all have at least 10 times the strength of a human, one hit from these species would usually kill someone unless that person got insanely lucky, or the Klingon held his punch or kick.
Folks complain how a tiny woman without super powers beats up all these big strong men using strength alone, but unaugmented human beating a race that is established to he 10 times stronger then humans and human like species in a straight up fist fight is actually worse, because the strength gap is much greater.
Like most big strong men aren't ten times stronger then an average woman, more like 1.5 to 2 times strong, 3 max.
The chemical enhancement finally has it make sense, if they'd been taking it off screen.
WRT " .. Vulcans never/cannot lie..." myth, this is by no means the first time it's been trotted out since Spock first used it in TOS S3 The Enterprise incident.
And in the episode itself, the Klingon captain of the D7 Crusier stated he didn't buy or believe such ancient Vulcan myths, so I can't see how you believe the writers 'flattened it out' in any way. Spock wanted to do everything he could to make the Klingons believe he was being forthright and honest with them, so he had good reason to propagate the myth in this situation.
Oh please. I don't get the idea where you believe Klingons have super strength. Mr Scott and Pavel Chekov we're able to hold their own very well in a bar brawl with a number of Klingons in TOS S2 The Trouble With Tribbles ; and in TOS S3 Day Of The Dove, humans in the Enterprise crew had no trouble going Toe to Toe with Kang's Klingon crew; and Kirk himself decked Kang with one punch in the Crew Lounge.
In DS9 they had both Kira and Dax (who are honestly both small and slight framed women), took out multiple arm to cling on Warriors in DS9 S4 The Way Of The Warrior.
So yeah, I don't know where you get this idea that Klingons have super strength compared to humans.
M'benga and Chapel took whatever drug that was because they knew they had to be able to have the stamina to beat up and make it through a bunch of enemies that they expected to encounter.
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Typically Worf is named as an example of way above typical human strength.
And Klingons themselves like to boast about their physical superiority.
But I dismiss Klingon boasting.
Worf is the type of person who is keeping himself in peak condition at all times.
It would be out of character for him to let himself go.
If they made TNG today, he would have probably been cast by someone with Thor‘s physique.
He would be very intimidating even to other Klingons. Actors being build like that seem to be very rare in the 80s or 90s.
The majority of Klingons we see look very average and sometimes even scrawny. Most of the bulk comes from the armor.
And Klingons themselves like to boast about their physical superiority.
But I dismiss Klingon boasting.
Worf is the type of person who is keeping himself in peak condition at all times.
It would be out of character for him to let himself go.
If they made TNG today, he would have probably been cast by someone with Thor‘s physique.
He would be very intimidating even to other Klingons. Actors being build like that seem to be very rare in the 80s or 90s.
The majority of Klingons we see look very average and sometimes even scrawny. Most of the bulk comes from the armor.
Exactly my thoughts. It was serviceable and entertaining, but it confirmed both the good and the bad I saw in Season 1. On the plus side: this is Star Trek, no doubt about it. The episodic approach is ultimately what the franchise needs to do. Picard was great for me, and it served its purpose in the end to give the TNG cast a final "movie". Now end Discovery and its always too-drawn out arcs already. Stick with shows that do it like SNW - and as we've seen, the episodic format does not preclude ongoing storylines and character development.
Having said that, I still can't get over the fact that they reintroduce all these TOS characters - clearly intended as fanservice - but then don't actually service the fans by keeping them consistent with what we know. Much as I like Jess Bush's performance itself, her Chapel is still the worst offender in this category. Who is this person and why is she the namesake of Majel Barrett's character?Perhaps there's some sort of endgame here, so I'll reserve final judgment, but as of now, I can't see why they wouldn't just create new characters that can then do whatever the eff they want them to do. But I know, the continuity issue is tired and there's no common ground to be found in debates on that.
But I think one can make a good case that the show - now as throughout season 1 - is too jokey, too setpiece-oriented. Kind of the series equivalent of a modern tentpole movie. That was my main thought watching this episode. There was no reason at all for M'Benga to have the superhero juice in his pocket - except that the producers thought "it would be cool" to have these guys have hand-to-hand combat with 25 Klingons. In order to get there, you need to sacrifice characterization and logic. You just hope nobody will notice because "dude, that scene was so dope"... Hmm, not for me. As for the overly lighthearted tone: Carol Kane's character. MORE comic relief in a show that is already 40% comic relief? I'll wait and see where it goes, but I worry. Her performance as such was NOT. GOOD. Don't kid yourselves here with nostalgia for some previous role she played. I didn't know her before, and what I saw here was a person struggling with every single line.
I felt like she was almost doing a non-violent version of her Ghost of Christmas Present character from Scrooged. Especially, since she basically serves the same function here. A mysterious instructor/guide who touches on a character’s family links (I know your mom) while giving them aide to push towards a goal.
Is it stated or shown anywhere in canon that Klingons have an insane strength advantage on humans? It’s shown their physiology is more durable, but I don’t think they’ve ever said the Klingons, as a species, are super-humanly more strong than a normal human. And, realistically, they shouldn’t be that much stronger than your average human, since their muscle mass is roughly the same. In fact, a Klingon the same height and weight as a human might have less muscle, given that they’re carrying around all of those redundant organs and denser bones.
Also, from what’s been depicted throughout multiple series, there’s nothing shown to back the idea of Klingon super-human strength up.
-The bar fight in “Trouble with Tribbles”
-The crew fighting Klingons in “Day of the Dove”
-Kirk fighting one-on-one with Kruge in Search for Spock
-The Klingon Captain is humbled very quickly by Data when he challenges him to a physical competition in TNG
-Sisko, Dax, and Kira holding off a Klingon boarding party in DS9
And it hasn’t been shown to be true even in the Paramount+ shows. Both Michael and Georgiou are able to go hand-to-hand when boarding T’Kuvma’s ship in Discovery. And there was no super-soldier serum administered beforehand.
Even where it’s been said that Vulcans are stronger than humans, given the conditions of evolving in the Vulcan environment, Kirk still holds his own for the most part against an out-of-control Spock in “Amok Time.”
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L'aan obviously took some sort of detox medication before taking drug spiced Klingon wine.
A woman cannot punch like that without breaking her hands. Even though it is my fave Chapel it is ridiculous.
G
Gul Sengosts
Guest
I think it's implied at times that Klingons are physically stronger--for example, I think Worf holding himself against many Jem'Hadar in captivity goes way beyond what any human should be physically capable of, no matter their prowess.
But they're also frequently depicted as pushovers whenever an episode wants to make our heroes look badass (like Riker on the Klingon ship, or Picard fending off two assassins on Qo'nos). I don't like it, but it's nothing new, SNW just follows an age old Trek tradition here.
But they're also frequently depicted as pushovers whenever an episode wants to make our heroes look badass (like Riker on the Klingon ship, or Picard fending off two assassins on Qo'nos). I don't like it, but it's nothing new, SNW just follows an age old Trek tradition here.
I watched this last night. I think it was written by AI maybe. They stole from Return of the Jedi, Raiders of the Lost Ark, The Expanse and previous Star Trek shows. That said, I still liked it.
The 'thermal detonator' scene and the enhancement drugs I didn't care for. Klingons would know better you would think. And if Noonen-Singh's bluff didnt't work...
Carol kane was epic.
The 'thermal detonator' scene and the enhancement drugs I didn't care for. Klingons would know better you would think. And if Noonen-Singh's bluff didnt't work...
Carol kane was epic.
The only way anyone can punch like that without breaking their hands is to aim for the squishy parts. Only lesson in fighting my dad ever taught me: don't hit the hard spots with your fists.
I'm assuming that the juice those two took was some kind of strength and reflex enhancer... the fights were in slow motion because that's how M'Benga and Chapel saw it. It does seem strange that neither side produced a weapon, though. Klingons always have a blade or two, and there were undoubtedly tons of improvised bludgeons lying around.
I think Klingons are supposed to have strength of about 1-1/2 to 2 times the human norm... enough to be superior, but not so much that a better trained human couldn't fight them. In "Enterprise", human augments flattened them easily, which led to the Klingons' attempt to create their own.
For me, while the end seemed too rushed, and it seemed like there was too little price paid for use of that enhancer (it should be dangerous enough to the user that it's strictly a last resort), I did enjoy it. Carol Kane just happily joining in on a bit of starship piracy was a nice way to bring her in, I enjoyed La'an's drinking game scene. Spock was a little off-kilter, but I suppose that was the point.
While I'm fond of Pike, having him be absent here shows that this is a show that, in addition to TOS's social commentary and sense of humor, and TNG's intelligence, promises to feature the multi-character development of DS9.
She was great wasn't she.?
Well, the Klingons may be stronger than the average human, but, these weren't warriors, they were engineers, welders, miners.
So, example, take a 6 ft 3in man in decent shape, and a 5ft 5in woman in Great shape that has some martial arts training. That 5ft 5in woman would probably kick his ass even though he has an advantange in strength and height.
Thats the way I looked at it, there Mojo potion gave them some perks but not "augment' level where you kick them and they fly down the hallway.
So, example, take a 6 ft 3in man in decent shape, and a 5ft 5in woman in Great shape that has some martial arts training. That 5ft 5in woman would probably kick his ass even though he has an advantange in strength and height.
Thats the way I looked at it, there Mojo potion gave them some perks but not "augment' level where you kick them and they fly down the hallway.
How dare you change with the passage of time and experience!