Spoilers Has Discovery destroyed the possibility of any positive progression until after the 32nd Century?

[Omegaphallic]

It just occurred to me that, no, the 32nd century seen in Discovery might not be definitive. How come?

Take the 2009 Kelvin movies. If Captain Jonathan Archer time traveled into the late 23rd century then there's an equal chance that he would end up in either the Kelvin timeline or the Prime timeline. From his perspective, either of these are perfectly legitimate futures for him to be in. Him time traveling forward to the Kelvin timeline does not negate the existence of the Prime Timeline.

Using this precedent, we have no reason to believe that Discovery's 32nd century future is the one the Trek tv timeline as we know it has to go into, especially considering there's a full fledged time war in between Picard and Trek that warped the timeline over a gazillion times more than Nero ever could.

An understandable mistake, but no.

Your making the mistake of taking a single instant of time travel in isolation.

Take Sulu, in one universe he's straight, in another he's gay because of an event that occurred after he was born. How?

The incident that created the Kelvin Universe changed the future, but that means countless incidents time travel from Kirk & Guardian of Torromorrow, to Sisko and the Bell Riots, to Admiral Picard going back in time to protect Renee Picard, etc..., which changes what they did in the past, which changes the future.

So now events occur that change the hormone balance of Sulu's mom when she's pregnate with Sulu, changing him to gay in the Kelvin timeline.

A single act of time travel can trigger a domino effect that changes other incidents of time travel, which leads to changes to the past of the new timeline/universes.

So A (time travel incident) lead to B leads to C leads to D (which is time travel to before A) leads to pre A.

 

[Yistaan]

An understandable mistake, but no.

Your making the mistake of taking a single instant of time travel in isolation.

Take Sulu, in one universe he's straight, in another he's gay because of an event that occurred after he was born. How?

The incident that created the Kelvin Universe changed the future, but that means countless incidents time travel from Kirk & Guardian of Torromorrow, to Sisko and the Bell Riots, to Admiral Picard going back in time to protect Renee Picard, etc..., which changes what they did in the past, which changes the future.

So now events occur that change the hormone balance of Sulu's mom when she's pregnate with Sulu, changing him to gay in the Kelvin timeline.

A single act of time travel can trigger a domino effect that changes other incidents of time travel, which leads to changes to the past of the new timeline/universes.

So A (time travel incident) lead to B leads to C leads to D (which is time travel to before A) leads to pre A.

Except for the sole instance of Guinan not recognizing Picard in 2024, time travel in Trek doesn't work that way. The proof? The Kelvin movie crew have outright said that "Enterprise" is canonical to the Kelvin timeline.

Enterprise includes "Regeneration" which ONLY happened because of time travel from the Prime Timeline in First Contact. Furthermore, a video of Zefram Cochrane talking about the Borg is in Enterprise. All that is still canonical to the Kelvin timeline, it's just that the Enterprise-E is now from an alternate future in 2063.

As for Sulu, the official website says Prime Sulu is born in 2237: https://www.startrek.com/database_article/sulu-hikaru . As the point of divergence in the Kelvin timeline is 2233, the Kelvin timeline Sulu is canonically a different person with the same parents. Same goes for Chekov, etc.

 

[Mudd]

Take Sulu, in one universe he's straight, in another he's gay because of an event that occurred after he was born. How?

Nope.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Take Sulu, in one universe he's straight, in another he's gay because of an event that occurred after he was born. How?

Or perhaps, in both, he's bi!

So now events occur that change the hormone balance of Sulu's mom when she's pregnate with Sulu, changing him to gay in the Kelvin timeline.

Ummm lol.

 

[Sci]

Take Sulu, in one universe he's straight, in another he's gay because of an event that occurred after he was born. How?

There is no indication whatsoever that Sulu is heterosexual in the Prime Timeline. We do see him express attraction to women on occasion, but this does not mean he must be heterosexual; bisexual and pansexual men can also express attraction to women. There is therefore every possibility that he is bisexual or pansexual in both the Prime Timeline and the Kelvin Timeline.

As for Sulu, the official website says Prime Sulu is born in 2237: https://www.startrek.com/database_article/sulu-hikaru . As the point of divergence in the Kelvin timeline is 2233, the Kelvin timeline Sulu is canonically a different person with the same parents. Same goes for Chekov, etc.

Nah. They're the same people.

 

[fireproof78]

As the point of divergence in the Kelvin timeline is 2233, the Kelvin timeline Sulu is canonically a different person with the same parents. Same goes for Chekov, etc.

Nope. Same people. Different circumstances. There is nothing precluding one from being like the other, save for fan assumptions.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Bruce Wayne is Bruce Wayne whether he's in the Adam West universe, the Nolanverse, Gotham, or the DCEU. Same for Sulu etc.

 

[Yistaan]

Nah. They're the same people.

Bruce Wayne is Bruce Wayne whether he's in the Adam West universe, the Nolanverse, Gotham, or the DCEU. Same for Sulu etc.

The Bruce Wayne examples are completely parallel universes that don't have a point of divergence, and thus are irrelevant to the Kelvin/Prime discussion. Chekov was born in 2241 in Kelvin and 2245 in Prime. It's impossible for them to be the same person genetically.

A good example is Yukio from the X-Men movies. In the original timeline as seen in the 2013 Wolverine movie, her power was to foresee people's deaths. After Days of Future Past changed the timeline, there's still a character called Yukio in the Deadpool films except now her power is completely different, she manipulates electricity. They are obviously not genetically the same character (different powers) but still likely have the same parents.

 

[Sci]

The Bruce Wayne examples are completely parallel universes that don't have a point of divergence, and thus are irrelevant to the Kelvin/Prime discussion. Chekov was born in 2241 in Kelvin and 2245 in Prime. It's impossible for them to be the same person genetically.

There's this amazing technology called in vitro fertilization. It is quite possible for them to be the same person genetically.

 

[Yistaan]

There's this amazing technology called in vitro fertilization. It is quite possible for them to be the same person genetically.

Ok fair enough, didn't consider that

 

[jaehaerys48]

I’m not a Discovery fan but I think its handling of the 32nd century is pretty fine. As mentioned by others it prevents things like the destruction of Earth (which I can see some ST work trying to pull) or Vulcan (which one movie already did pull). The Federation is at a low point, but I think that’s ok. All civilizations have their ups and downs. Thinking that the Federation will never falter or fall is arrogance. And even at this low point it’s not an awful dystopia, and it’s clearly on the path to recovery. I like that the setting is still recognizable as Star Trek. Ships are still around and haven’t been replaced by some other tech. I don’t like the explanation of the Burn but it’s not that annoying.