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Spoilers The Strange New Worlds Starship Thread™

Wasn't the TOS Enterprise originally designed to be much smaller? Indeed, I seem to recall it originally was supposed to only have a single deck in the saucer rim. The windows even conveyed this in "The Cage". We even have this diagram still on the bridge.
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Something left over from when she was supposed to be smaller.

Yes, she was half the size, hence the lower crew compliment in The Cage. Then after the pilot they chopped the bridge in half and doubled the size of the ship. After that they made the 947 foot graphic.
 
To be clear, I'm not going to fight about this. I'll talk about it until the cows come home, to be sure.

So make the Excelsior bigger, as has been discussed. It's scale has never made much sense. Even less when I add this MSD to the mix....
Yeah, the Excelsior has to be huge. I don't necessarily trust "on screen evidence" (can you believe there are FX artists who intentionally make ships look BIGGER just for dramatic purpose?) but the last shot of the Ex. at the end of TVH is probably pretty close, isn't it?

Wasn't the TOS Enterprise originally designed to be much smaller? Indeed, I seem to recall it originally was supposed to only have a single deck in the saucer rim. The windows even conveyed this in "The Cage".
There are some windows added to the saucer by the time you get to the series, but the existing windows are the same size and placement from The Cage forward.

When she was much smaller the bridge was going to be in the whole BC bubble.

Yes, she was half the size, hence the lower crew compliment in The Cage. Then after the pilot they chopped the bridge in half and doubled the size of the ship. After that they made the 947 foot graphic.
That too.

doesn't 442 meters more sense with the interiors?
With TOS and SNW we just can't be comparing apples to apples.

If 442 makes more sense because of the interiors you have to pick your show. The sets are larger on SNW. So if 442 makes more sense for SNW then that's an acknowledgement that the TOS figures made more sense for TOS. And if 442 makes sense for TOS then is it still too small for SNW?

(I'm curious how much larger SNW is, honestly. Looking at the virtual bridges at the Roddenberry Project the SNW bridge looks bigger, but not as much bigger as it does on screen. I'd be very interested in seeing the sets compared.)
 
Yes, she was half the size, hence the lower crew compliment in The Cage. Then after the pilot they chopped the bridge in half and doubled the size of the ship. After that they made the 947 foot graphic.
Funny how TOS purist can be fine with that, but Strange New Worlds further corrects the size and suddenly it's a problem.
 
Agreed! I'm not sure who it was who made this size chart, but to me, it's almost perfect. Though I would probably make the Excelsior even bigger.
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The Excelsior looks like it has smaller crew/cargo space than the Connies. Maybe the ExL is the ship "they really packed them in" on. ;)
 
Funny how TOS purist can be fine with that, but Strange New Worlds further corrects the size and suddenly it's a problem.
2 episodes that they weren't even sure if they were going to air where they hadn't even landed on the uniforms yet vs. 78+ where these things were much more nailed down?

If next season they change the ship to 800m or something (and insist that it was always that way) while keeping the same sets then we might have something similar?

Myself, I still say Vulcanian but I'm OK with the planet Vulcan having a moon or two.

Again, SNW isn't correcting the size because they didn't think the TOS sets would fit, they're doing it because the SNW sets might not fit. Which they have decided need to be larger.
 
2 episodes that they weren't even sure if they were going to air where they hadn't even landed on the uniforms yet vs. 78+ where these things were much more nailed down?

If next season they change the ship to 800m or something (and insist that it was always that way) while keeping the same sets then we might have something similar?

Myself, I still say Vulcanian but I'm OK with the planet Vulcan having a moon or two.

Again, SNW isn't correcting the size because they didn't think the TOS sets would fit, they're doing it because the SNW sets might not fit. Which they have decided need to be larger.
But TOS/TMP sets wouldn't fit in a 289m/305m ship....
 
The size of the Enterprise in SNW doesn't bother me, it just means the rest of the Enterprises would need to scale a little. IE the Enterprise-C would likely have to bump up to 620m, the Enterprise-D to 690 meters and the Enterprise-E to about 750 meters.

Or not, whatever, its a spaceship.
 
I'm not saying that SNW can't go in a different direction. But be clear that it is only because they wanted to. Not because the old stats "didn't work". World War III can't be in 1996. But the Enterprise can certainly still be ~1000 feet long.
If 442 makes more sense because of the interiors you have to pick your show. The sets are larger on SNW. So if 442 makes more sense for SNW then that's an acknowledgement that the TOS figures made more sense for TOS. And if 442 makes sense for TOS then is it still too small for SNW?
No, it really is because the old stats didn't work, and we are already taking the figures from TOS into account. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that 289m for TOS made sense for that show, and that enlargement was only necessary for SNW sets. The figures for TOS famously never did make sense, long before SNW came around.

All of the below is strictly regarding TOS only:

-Each deck has at least 10 feet of internal space as depicted on-screen and in construction plans. In a 289m Enterprise, due to the size and number of decks, the max amount of space a deck could occupy is 8 feet. Taking into account the space between decks, this means the ceiling is only going to be 6 feet tall, 7' being generous, with doorways being even lower. I don't recall Spock having to duck under doorways. Depending on the space between decks, the 1701 can be calculated to be between 402 and 440 meters to properly accommodate them. This scale matches Doug Drexler's deck plan that he created for the Defiant used in In a Mirror Darkly which was ~432m.

-The shuttle bay/shuttles as depicted literally cannot fit within a 289m Enterprise. The bare-minimum size the ship needs to be in order to barely contain the bay is 331m, and when taking more reference into account like the shuttlecraft and crewman heights it must be 401m or greater. (The TMP cargo bay also does not fit into the refit either at the old scale)

-The bridge famously never fit properly into the dome, necessitating rotating it to the side so that the turbolift has somewhere to be. In a 400+ meter Enterprise, that's no longer a problem. Now the bridge can face forward, the turbolift can stay where it is, and the cab can move around into the shaft in the back as it departs.

So considering the above, SNW is doing us a favor by making 442m official. At around that scale, all the sets as depicted in TOS could finally fit properly inside the ship. It's got nothing to do with pitting new against old, it's simply about what is logical and consistent. And as of recently, what is canon.
 
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So considering the above, SNW is doing us a favor by making 442m official. At around that scale, all the sets as depicted in TOS could finally fit properly inside the ship. It's got nothing to do with pitting new against old, it's simply about what is logical and consistent.
All reasonable points. Until you get to: We made the container bigger. But we also increased what is in the container.

So either there is now enough room for TOS and not enough for SNW. Or there IS enough room for SNW but it's now too big for TOS. Of course it could be too big for TOS AND not enough room for SNW.

I don't think that engineering deck / cargo bay fit anyplace. They look really cool, so I'd love to be proven wrong.
 
Maybe the SNW Enterprise got damaged so badly, that it was uneconomical to repair it? Decommissioned and another TOS Connie got named or renamed to Enterprise?
 
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