when? There are no original changelinings shown this series, outside the ones in a bunch of jars in a flashback.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x09 - "Võx"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
when? There are no original changelinings shown this series, outside the ones in a bunch of jars in a flashback.
Kinda weird to see the plaque hanging like a painting on the wall.
(Thank goodness it wasn't like that in the ep.)
This is also a huge problem I have with the Changelings in this show.
Star Trek Picard season 3 was made by people who don't understand DS9 and Changelings.
Changelings could always perfectly imitate internal organs, otherwise, a simple tricorder scan would have detected them.
Changelings forced Odo into a human form with internal organs and took his ability to shapeshift away.
I got the impression it was *permanent* internal organs that were new. So even if one was incapacitated it would still initially read as ‘not changeling’ and could also emulate ‘sleep’ etc.
The one thing that makes the novelVerse Picard different. He listened to that.
But then why did Transporter-Chief-Man have a bucket? If he didn't rest in liquid form, why did he have it with him? Surely not just so the crew had a clue to chase!
You’re right. Vadic said they could retain their form indefinitely. Maybe going to a liquid state helps with the pain. She also said they were in constant pain.But then why did Transporter-Chief-Man have a bucket? If he didn't rest in liquid form, why did he have it with him? Surely not just so the crew had a clue to chase!
Someone tweet Matalas. He’ll know
Or she is not what she appears to be!
sure, it’s not racist at all to call someone “the Asian”/“the African”/whatever.
In which way? I don’t think this show touched on the original changelings at all, bar a couple of passing references.
But then why did Transporter-Chief-Man have a bucket? If he didn't rest in liquid form, why did he have it with him? Surely not just so the crew had a clue to chase!
Oh it’s absolutely for the clue. But with like every story conceit and fan-service bit, it’s about how well they bedded that in the story to make sense. Internal consistency. It’s a *little* janky, but they establish the differences as well as showing you overhangs from the earlier changelings. It may be the bucket is a ‘just in case’ measure, or even habit from before the changeling was modified.
The pain thing is absolutely suggested by the story, and makes sense within the rules of the narrative we have.
Trek answered that first part way back when with Abraham Lincoln and Uhura. It’s clunky as heck by todays, standards but it is in keeping with Treks setting.
Calling Data ‘the robot’ is an accidental clumsy step beyond that, even if it works for the joke and the character. As long as you don’t think too hard.
I mean I could probably spin a full essay about how it’s a class thing, with Seven being raised a Princess and Data as ‘Robot’ being therefore identified as ‘worker’ or even ‘Slave’ and the roots of Sevens socialising difficulties being born of her Borg derived classism, with reference to a comparison between the concept of the Borg ‘collective’ and the Communist ‘Bolshevik’ and how the Queen and Seven represent the inevitable reversion into a hierarchical state, in which Data represents both the ideal but also the enemy… but not today.
Unless it's being implied that there is something wrong with being Klingon, African or Asian, I don't see a problem here. It's the only way to quickly identify the person in question.
The problem at hand is that Seven should know the difference between robots and androids very well. So there might be a deeper meaning behind all of this.
Bingo! Changelings could imitate people perfectly, which is why they were successful as agents of infiltration. If you could only mimic the outside appearance of a person, you wouldn't last 30 seconds in the Federation (and even less time in the Romulan and Klingon Empires.)
It's explicitly stated that when you transform into something, you become that thing and "scan" as that thing. It's the reason why blood screenings were invented, since traditional detection didn't work. And because there are sensors and tricorders and transporters literally everywhere.
A changeling copy that was only skin deep would get nowhere. They could always make perfect, undetectable copies, inside and out.
This is pretty common in Star Trek when the person in question is the only person of that species around.
The Doctor playfully says to Seven things like “How’s my favorite Borg today?”
I think Worf is referred to as a “____ Klingon” as a joke more than once in TNG and DS9. With adjectives changing.
It isn’t a race it’s a species. So it would be more like me referring to my Jack Russell as my Dog instead of calling him Woody. I have only one dog so sometimes I say my dog to other people.
Also, Seven spent 20 years as a Borg who start off by taxonomy and classification. Most of Voyager she would still bring up Borg classification and then give their distilled run down.
It was nothing but a not great joke. It was, I think, suppose to be a play on the nostalgia factor of Data being back. It was exciting for the main characters and a lot of fans. So to have her dismiss his presence and significance was the joke. But it was just a joke, just not a particularly funny one.
Also, Seven is quite often rude. But in her defense she only has the emotional intelligence of a human even now of what a 28-32 year old? Of unassimilated life.
The Doctor playfully says to Seven things like “How’s my favorite Borg today?”
I think Worf is referred to as a “____ Klingon” as a joke more than once in TNG and DS9. With adjectives changing.
It isn’t a race it’s a species. So it would be more like me referring to my Jack Russell as my Dog instead of calling him Woody. I have only one dog so sometimes I say my dog to other people.
Also, Seven spent 20 years as a Borg who start off by taxonomy and classification. Most of Voyager she would still bring up Borg classification and then give their distilled run down.
It was nothing but a not great joke. It was, I think, suppose to be a play on the nostalgia factor of Data being back. It was exciting for the main characters and a lot of fans. So to have her dismiss his presence and significance was the joke. But it was just a joke, just not a particularly funny one.
Also, Seven is quite often rude. But in her defense she only has the emotional intelligence of a human even now of what a 28-32 year old? Of unassimilated life.
They make it explicitly clear through Vadic’s explanation to Picard that these Changeling’s have been altered through their experience of being being prisoners and tested on by Daystrom.
They’ve made it clear this season that:
- These Changelings are renegades from the Great Link and not connected to the Dominion. Worf implies that it was a warning from Odo that got the investigation into the conspiracy going.
- They’ve been physically altered to where they are not just goo, but have some internal physiology to them that has affected their abilities.
- The only reason they can track them is that Crusher realizes the process of the experiments left an identifier.
You’re making up something that isn’t specified in the shows prior.
when Odo was turned into a human as punishment for killing the infiltrator on the Defiant it was made a clear line of dialog that Bashir could now detect organs, heart, lungs, etc.
This means that it was a clear departure from what he was.
it was never stated in any episode prior that the Changlings could imitate human or other species physical properties and biology.
what you’re saying is an example of the showrunners not understanding the ds9 Changlings isn’t based on what you have seen on screen, but instead what you assumed and made absolute
But, as they ent to great lengths to show you, the changelings now maintain their form even when you take bits off. That was the whole point in making them undetectable.
Odo was the only one that required a bucket, and even he gave up the bucket near the end of the series after he learned from experienced changelings how to morph properly.
Yes, but these new ones could hold the form better than the old ones, and don't turn to goo when killed.
Blood tests also didn't always work. Changeling Martok passed it fine.
If that were true, Bashir wouldn't have been surprised to detect organs inside Odo when he was punished.
Last edited: