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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x09 - "Võx"

Engage!


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I am still going through these pages, so forgive me if this has been said.

First, LOVED this episode!

Hated it was the Borg, but I figured it woyld be since everything pointed to them. Also hated Shaw's death.

Loved everything else.


There is something that occured to me. We have never seen any former Borg have children. Maybe the Borg could have had a Jack all along but because they could never bring themselves to unassimilate any of their drones and let them have kids.

It also makes me wonder if the planet of the Cooperative (VGR's "UNITY") has been attacked by the Borg and they discovered this because that colony likely had children.
 
I can see that.


As much as I'd miss the visual variety, I'm forced to agree that this is the best way to put out Streaming Trek economically.


Reading this now, it just occurred to me that Discovery could become a training vessel. It saves them from having to build new sets. And, effectively, it would be kind of like DSC Season 6 but not. I think instead of having new series that completely from scratch, one series will transition into a replacement series. DSC becomes SFA. PIC becomes LEG. I'm really not liking typing "LEG" but I'll go with it for now.


Assuming the Titan survives, it looks to me like Seven would the Captain. Though I think Jeri Ryan probably doesn't cost as much as Sir Patrick Stewart, and she'd be the only Legacy Character who'd be a regular. I think they can have one without breaking back. But the entire TNG cast back and Seven, like with PIC Season 3? Something had to give. I think it's actually pretty amazing what they've pulled off this season, given how much they probably had to pay to get everyone back and also recreate the Enterprise-D set(s).

Exactly. Apparently that Enterprise D set (from the Variety feature on it) was extremely expensive and time consumng to build. But good news! They saved it this time.

I think basically everyone with a pair of eyes knew that Strange New Worlds was coming once they saw the 1701 bridge in the last episode (or two?) of Discovery Season 2. That bridge was so lavishly detailed, so beautifully built and so clearly very expensive, it had "we're spreading the costs of the new show by taking some money from an existing one" written all over it. And that's not a bad thing. It's far from the first show to ever do that.

One encouraging thing about a potential Legacy show is that from a production standpoint, i think producers agree with the economical angle now. Season 1's biggest CGI moment was the stupid flower defense system in Episode 9. Gosh, imagine how expensive that was, not only making these fluidly moving organic things, byt syncronizing it with view through the bridge window as live actors are apparently looking at this thing encapsulate the ship. It's like... why? That's Hollywood level sure, but so unnecessary and so expensive.And the irony is, it didn't have an ounce the oomf that the Intrepid rising above the Titan like an awakened, pissed off dragon did in Episode 5.And that was just a Starship model moving a little with some fire effects on a nacelle.

This comes up in a lot of directors and producers interviews about film making in general. CGI has made scriptwriters and some producers basically gluttonous, but also lazy. They want to do more elaborate things (that might not be necessary to the story or performances), and say "CGI can make it happen", and the thing that gives is it eats up the budget.

My guess is the belt tightening at Paramount, like everywhere else, has us see only 2 live action Trek shows - SNW and SFA - simultaneously, rather than three. I would (sadly) be surprised if Legacy happens before SNW has wrapped for good (and let's be clear, Section 31 is never happening unless its an event miniseries of like 5 episodes as a one off, in a repackaged concept). But they could easily support 3, or 2 with more episodes, if they just gave up the losers game of trying to compare to Mandalorian and the Star Wars shows on a CGI basis. Star Trek did CGI well, and pioneered it for TV, but it's not the 1990s anymore, and the competition really isn't a TV show... it's a chopped up movie with a budget three times the size backed by the largest media conglomerate it the world.
 
I’ve also seen the finale described, by those who’ve seen it, as Star Trek’s Avengers Endgame. So I’m definitely expecting legacy characters from other shows to be involved, and the ships too.
[Emphasis mine.] That does not bode well. It's also somewhat ironic, because the post-movie credits sequence of Endgame was explicitly inspired by TUC.
 
Matalas has doubled-down on Star Trek being more science fantasy than anything else.
Berman's bad-science fiction looks more ridiculous in the 2020s than ever. What we've learned about space in just the post-Berman era from the Mars missions, and Hubble, and LIGO and JWST just pants'd it all. This was really coming out in 2004/2005 in the last episodes of Enterprise. Demons and Terra Prime, taking place on the Moon and Mars. Real locations where Trek dared not tread in prior iterations. Well even the limited data (at the time) from a few new Mars rovers made doing a reslistic-ish Mars possible in 2005, and kinda made the prior inhospitible soundstage Star Trek planets look ridiculous by comparison.

But you wanna know when it really jumped how why Science Fantasy is just better? It was Discovery Season 4 (I believe). We got hit with some hard science about gravity and relativistic effects if I recall. It was solid, without a trace of 1990s era technobabble and imaginary particles. And it was so out of place for Star Trek. It was too real. It was entirely accurate but it fit in badly in a world of Nadion emissions, Subspace and Graviton Flux. I appreciate it. I even commented about it here on the board. But it was kind of weird to be in Trek. I think that's a testament to the semi-consistent set of fictional universe "rules" that the Berman era developed. The science was BS but it sounded good in the story and was fairly consistent show to show. But it also was a testament to how far from hard science Star Trek consequently moved during that time. That stuff had to exist in the 90s because we knew less about the universe. Now we know much more, and can't plausibly do Black holes as gigantic drains in space and stuff like that anymore (thanks Interstellar).

If Trek is to be timeless, science fantasy is absolutely the way forward. Trek will never out race the real world, so don't try. Embrace the bullshit-but-consistent Star Trek universe rules, and start counting Tachyon emissions to our hearts content.
 
I think basically everyone with a pair of eyes knew that Strange New Worlds was coming once they saw the 1701 bridge in the last episode (or two?) of Discovery Season 2. That bridge was so lavishly detailed, so beautifully built and so clearly very expensive, it had "we're spreading the costs of the new show by taking some money from an existing one" written all over it. And that's not a bad thing. It's far from the first show to ever do that.
There were no plans in the works to make a Pike series when they built that bridge.
 
Berman's bad-science fiction looks more ridiculous in the 2020s than ever. What we've learned about space in just the post-Berman era from the Mars missions, and Hubble, and LIGO and JWST just pants'd it all. This was really coming out in 2004/2005 in the last episodes of Enterprise. Demons and Terra Prime, taking place on the Moon and Mars. Real locations where Trek dared not tread in prior iterations. Well even the limited data (at the time) from a few new Mars rovers made doing a reslistic-ish Mars possible in 2005, and kinda made the prior inhospitible soundstage Star Trek planets look ridiculous by comparison.

But you wanna know when it really jumped how why Science Fantasy is just better? It was Discovery Season 4 (I believe). We got hit with some hard science about gravity and relativistic effects if I recall. It was solid, without a trace of 1990s era technobabble and imaginary particles. And it was so out of place for Star Trek. It was too real. It was entirely accurate but it fit in badly in a world of Nadion emissions, Subspace and Graviton Flux. I appreciate it. I even commented about it here on the board. But it was kind of weird to be in Trek. I think that's a testament to the semi-consistent set of fictional universe "rules" that the Berman era developed. The science was BS but it sounded good in the story and was fairly consistent show to show. But it also was a testament to how far from hard science Star Trek consequently moved during that time. That stuff had to exist in the 90s because we knew less about the universe. Now we know much more, and can't plausibly do Black holes as gigantic drains in space and stuff like that anymore (thanks Interstellar).

If Trek is to be timeless, science fantasy is absolutely the way forward. Trek will never out race the real world, so don't try. Embrace the bullshit-but-consistent Star Trek universe rules, and start counting Tachyon emissions to our hearts content.
Yeah, I agree.

I really should start watching The Expanse.

Also, I'm a big fan of Michael Swanwick, and appreciate his research and plausible story idea skills. Here's a, I think, Hugo-winning short story that is both entertaining and sciency:

https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/slow-life/
 
There were no plans in the works to make a Pike series when they built that bridge.

It also looks absolutely nothing like the SNW bridge at all. It tried to look like the TOS bridge (albeit with modern technology.) SNW makes zero effort to have any visual ties to the original.
 
Matalas has doubled-down on Star Trek being more science fantasy than anything else.
I agree with that when it comes to distances. You don’t really get a good idea who far everything is since it only seems to take minutes to get from one place to another.
It’s why I appreciated the “within an hour” in this episode since that at least gives some indication how far away they are from Sol.
 
Sorry if already posted, currently at page 86/109 :ack: :D

https://variety.com/2023/artisans/news/star-trek-picard-enterprise-d-bridge-set-1235580496

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I love these. Thank you so much for sharing them.

I love the framing of the shot of Gates with the bridge behind her. (But Beverly, why are you just standing staring into an open turbolift? People are probably trying to get to work!)
 
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