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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x09 - "Võx"

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Ronin'sCreamyCandle said:
Calling Data a "robot" demeans everthing Data is. Seven should know better as she is not some idiotic ensign who does not know better. And she keeps being bitter about Shaw deadnaming her. Why would she choose to do something just as horrible to Data? She is calling him in essence "stupid" and "Less than he is" by using the term "Robot", and by saying "Your Robot" suggests Data is a slave to the TNG crew. It's horrible.
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Pulaski only had to be corrected once. I see no problem with Seven making a similar error. She has no shared background with Data. How would she know better? She won't be doing it again, because she will relate to how he felt when she said it. One error is permissible. Shaw deliberately made his error over and over.
 
I did like it.

I think I just give in, against the logic of some of it. We are lucky that the entirety of this cast is still with us. If there was a time to do this, it was now... It's worth it.

You know though, the more we get through this season, the more I'm leaning into thinking that Season 1 was by far the superior show.
 
Therin of Andor said:
Pulaski only had to be corrected once. I see no problem with Seven making a similar error. She has no shared background with Data. How would she know better? She won't be doing it again, because she will relate to how he felt when she said it. One error is permissible. Shaw deliberately made his error over and over.
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I might need to watch that part again but Data also didn’t seem too bothered by it. Intent and perception are big parts of all of that too.
 
Campe said:
I might need to watch that part again but Data also didn’t seem too bothered by it. Intent and perception are big parts of all of that too.
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He gave an affronted expression, but it was played for laughs and no one had time to discuss it.
 
Ronin'sCreamyCandle said:
Calling Data a "robot" demeans everthing Data is. Seven should know better as she is not some idiotic ensign who does not know better. And she keeps being bitter about Shaw deadnaming her. Why would she choose to do something just as horrible to Data? She is calling him in essence "stupid" and "Less than he is" by using the term "Robot", and by saying "Your Robot" suggests Data is a slave to the TNG crew. It's horrible.
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I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and believe she was being sarcastic.

Although, it might be a little bit of the Borg view of Data coming out of her. In "Best of Both Worlds II," Locutus calls Data "a primitive artificial organism" that will be "obsolete in the new order."
 
Campe said:
You still have to earn it. With a lot of story to tell in maybe a 90 minute episode at the longest, not holding my breath on them satisfactionally making me change my mind about it feeling earned. This would have been an easy fix by dropping things along the season. But they didn’t.
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They have decades of story together and some strong emotions this season. I doubt they’re going to be getting married at the end of the season (not the least of which being there not being any time for it in a single episode, with already a lot else to do), but it wouldn’t surprise me if they’re on-again at the end. If they decide to try, after everything they go through and appreciate the gift the universe has laid at their feet.

And frankly, he and Laris were a terrible idea. They were friends in season 1. She owed him so much, respected him so much. That they offed Zhaban (killing potential story possibilities and an interesting non-sexual relationship there), then coupled Laris with Picard because why-not-he’s-the-captain-and-she’s-a-woman-in-the-vicinity…I did not like that much at all. Especially as we had no idea wtf happened with Crusher, who should have been the #1 other TNG character in this series. The preoccupation with Data in it…you’d think it were called Star Trek: La Forge.
 
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The_Baron said:
One thing occurred to me...

Is this organic transmitter unique to Locutus, or does it affect all drones?

Could that be why in the alternate endgame future, Tuvok had lost his marbles?

If the abilities it grants skips a generation....could Miral Paris be affected the same way as Jack?

I'm assuming it's unique, otherwise why do they need Picards body and not literally any other drone.
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I thought this too, and I think the mutation in Picard is something like an unexpected chance event they are taking advantage of, rather that a deliberate plan laid down by the Queen in BOBW. It’s possible, given dialogue in FC, that it’s something the queen did to Picard — as with the therapy that was to be used for Dax and Worf in DS9 — to allow them to have children. Then, by happenstance it occurs with Beverly and Jack instead (possibly because Bev herself seems to end up with psi kids, and attracts space ghosts) and now there’s a plan when the Queen hears Jack and calls out to him. (As is shown.)

It’s also possible this could happen with *any* ex-drone, but something to do with Picard experiencing multiple timelines in AGT — something we know the Borg Queen also does on a regular basis due to both dialogue in FC and PICs2 — triggered the specific mutation in Picard and Picard alone. Which is why they needed his body, to study how it worked and how they could use it, and then to transfer that mutation to everyone (not just the under 25s as people seem to think) via transporter beam. It’s why it’s a useful Trojan horse — it isn’t really purely something Borg, but something that is mutated human.

It makes sense when you think about it anyway, I think. The key part is that Jack is the response to the mutation, and a further mutation from receiver into transmitter.
He’s the Borg Queens Kwisatz Haderach basically — there’s a bit of Dune in all of it.
 
BBC 2 6pm said:
I do think even today people would be deeply uncomfortable with MLK! I mean his real views, the socialist ones, not the toned-down "I have a dream"/"content of their character" speech that people bring up, which really understates how radical his views were, especially in later years.
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They don’t much like ‘no money, evolved species’ Picard either, is closer to the point I was making. XD
You are right of course, and nor is much said in wider circles of the fact that MLK was religious, which would not jibe well for other groups of people.
It is almost as though ideologies and people are much more complex than simple paradigms of left and right, or algorithmic prediction…
 
Therin of Andor said:
Pulaski only had to be corrected once. I see no problem with Seven making a similar error. She has no shared background with Data. How would she know better? She won't be doing it again, because she will relate to how he felt when she said it. One error is permissible. Shaw deliberately made his error over and over.
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It's a strech to think Seven knows nothing of Data.
 
BBC 2 6pm said:
I do think even today people would be deeply uncomfortable with MLK! I mean his real views, the socialist ones, not the toned-down "I have a dream"/"content of their character" speech that people bring up, which really understates how radical his views were, especially in later years.
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They’d be wrong to do so. There were people deeply uncomfortable with his views back then too and to hell with them. There’s not anyone that anyone would name something after that someone wouldn’t have a problem with but that’s beside the point. There 100% is a USS Martin Luther King in the Federation fleet, and that’s as it should be.

My only problem with the names this season are that there should be more alien ones. The Western/Anglo heavy ones from the past never sat right with me then let’s lone now. (Though, thanks for all the Greek ones, my ancestors tip their nectar and ambrosia to you.) But give me at least one Vulcan, one Andorian (since we kind of have naming schemes for them), and one other alien one, not counting the Gorkon, please.
 
It's not okay that Seven called Data "robot" bcs they are mostly the same.
She in her body has biological and mechanical parts as xBorg. He in his body has biological and mechanical parts as golem-masterpiece of Soongs.

So what's the real difference? biological-mechanical Data is different from biological-mechanical Seven? They both have consciousness and feelings and they are both living beings and mixture between biological and mechanical
 
Arpy said:
They’d be wrong to do so. There were people deeply uncomfortable with his views back then too and to hell with them. There’s not anyone that anyone would name something after that someone wouldn’t have a problem with but that’s beside the point. There 100% is a USS Martin Luther King in the Federation fleet, and that’s as it should be.

My only problem with the names this season are that there should be more alien ones. The Western/Anglo heavy ones from the past never sat right with me then let’s lone now. (Though, thanks for all the Greek ones, my ancestors tip their nectar and ambrosia to you.) But give me at least one Vulcan, one Andorian (since we kind of have naming schemes for them), and one other alien one, not counting the Gorkon, please.
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Seeing how Star Trek is uniquely United States American, it's not that abnormal. More alien names would be welcome, but would not be easly recognized as MLK ship or names in the States.
 
Caeruleus said:
It's not okay that Seven called Data "robot" bcs they are mostly the same.
She in her body has biological and mechanical parts as xBorg. He in his body has biological and mechanical parts as golem-masterpiece of Soongs.

So what's the real difference? biological-mechanical Data is different from biological-mechanical Seven? They both have consciousness and feelings and they are both living beings and mixture between biological and mechanical
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I feel the equivalent would be if Data qipped back and called her "Drone."
They should have done that, it would have showcased the new Data. :angel:
 
My guess for Episode 10 is that Jack will not only save the 25 and under's, but free the entire Borg collective no matter where they are. Or turn them into a force for good, going planet to planet repairing the damage the Borg did.
 
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