Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x09 - "Võx"

[Lord Garth]

There's a saying about how whenever someone says something like this, claims to be neither left wing nor right wing, they are right wing when it comes down to it.

In any case, even if this is a bit of a conservative agenda, I don't have a problem with it.

No. I know some people who are decidedly left wing, but they don't vote for the two major parties. They'll support Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez but, otherwise, they're for the Green Party. And they've given me a hard time for not voting Green. "You live in Massachusetts! It's going to vote blue anyway!" Trust me, they're not right wing.

On the other hand, I do know some people who say they're "in the middle", but they always side with the GOP, so yeah, they're right wing.

It depends on the person.

Anyway, the Democratic Party's leadership was pretty old at the top levels for while. Biden as President and, until recently, Pelosi as Speaker of the House. So "old people have to steer the ship to set things right!" was a Democratic thing too. I don't think what they're doing in Picard should be politicized. I don't think it's meant to be political, and people are looking into what's not there.

 

[BBC 2 6pm]

I’m British, and mostly left, though not as far left as some would like. XD
Part of the Blair years, who didn’t mind Cameron and the coalition.
I am the guy who pisses off both sides, and strongly dislikes the purity control and hypocrisy in operation on both sides of politics.

Same phenomenon happened in the UK in 2010, when the 'neither left nor right' Lib Dems went full-on austerity when they jumped into bed with the Tories as part of the coalition.

To make this on topic, I do think that Star Trek has always been far more conservative than it's let on. Viewers might have been far less comfortable with it if Fed Headquarters was on another planet, most members of Starfleet another species etc, rather than a de facto human empire. Humans definitely do have a 'first among equals' status as far as we see. And that's not to even mention things like the 'root beer' conversation, which basically boils down to "if you don't like American culture it's because you don't know it well enough, it gets everyone in the end".

 

[Ronin'sCreamyCandle]

I've heard that song before. Second Warning, take a break. I'll also toss in a permanent reply ban to this thread. Congrats, you got there ahead of at least one very likely contender.

ETA: It won't let me replay ban you while you're on vacation, so I'll put that on my to do list.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I have complaints... to be honest, it wasn't the best they could have done. Honestly, Enterprise had better CGI than this whole series.


I don't blame them, comes down to Price, Time, and Quality.. Pick 2. To me it looks more like a game cut scene level of quality. but as said, Money and time was limited, so I'm happy that we got anything.

Yes they didn't have the money but it does look like a lot went for the Ds bridge and it's CGI. They did right by it. I just hope the quality keeps up for the last ep. Also yes STEs special effects were top notch. Their CGI for that time still holds up perfectly today. A great show.

 

[Arpy]

Doesn’t change the fact they haven’t earned it if they do it at this point. There’s been no hint of a romantic relationship here. Their relationship very much reads adults who had a child together and get along. But they realize they can’t be a couple. And of course Jack will live. I thought for a bit he might bite it. But a mothers love will save the day.

Oh sure…have they even hugged this season? Could go either way. They loved each other back then and haven’t stopped thinking about each other since. His feelings are still strong and she’s still listening to his playlists. It was their child’s safety that kept them apart more than anything, and that may no longer be as great an issue if he survives.

 

[jaime]

Is Data human? Not really. He’s something different. In a way, he’s a biological machine. Was it simplistic? Yeah. Was it stupid? Sure. Was it worse than deadnaming someone? Absolutely not.

Using deadnaming in reference to seven is… weird, and if it is applicable in this case, reducing Data to robot kind of is just as bad. It is literally like saying ‘the slave is right’ reducing his identity *even lower* than what might be called a race in Trek.
However, I think in both the case of Seven/Annika and Data/Robot we are overthinking it a tad.
In sevens case it is absolutely about chosen identity, but it is also about *why* Shaw might have used the name he did, and whether it was about lessening, when from his perspective and history with the Borg, it can be argued it is the opposite.
Which makes it into a meta commentary about individuality and the interaction of individuals.
From most perspectives, both are wrong, and Seven does not have the character for it to work — she was close to the Doctor/EMH after all.

 

[jaime]

The av and user name are a sex joke about Bev, FWIW.

Yes. The Anne Rice episode. I am familiar with it.

 

[Ronin'sCreamyCandle]

I believe it was in part a humorous comment, made a poster identified in their av as a woman.
A lot of people did not like Shelby back in the day.

The only named character death I wish hadn’t happened this season so far was Ro. And maybe Shaw.

As a young woman I was in love with Riker, and hated Shelby for how rude she was to him. I was secretly hoping she would die to the Borg during the BOBW. So when she took 2 phaser hits suddenly I thought back to those times and was highly amused as my guy Riker got ultimate revenge.

 

[Ronin'sCreamyCandle]

With all due respect, calling Data a robot is not worse than dead naming someone. The latter is consciously refusing to accept the desired name of an individual, it is constantly malicious.

Calling Data a "robot" demeans everthing Data is. Seven should know better as she is not some idiotic ensign who does not know better. And she keeps being bitter about Shaw deadnaming her. Why would she choose to do something just as horrible to Data? She is calling him in essence "stupid" and "Less than he is" by using the term "Robot", and by saying "Your Robot" suggests Data is a slave to the TNG crew. It's horrible.

 

[Campe]

Oh sure…have they even hugged this season? Could go either way. They loved each other back then and haven’t stopped thinking about each other since. His feelings are still strong and she’s still listening to his playlists. It was their child’s safety that kept them apart more than anything, and that may no longer be as great an issue if he survives.

You still have to earn it. With a lot of story to tell in maybe a 90 minute episode at the longest, not holding my breath on them satisfactionally making me change my mind about it feeling earned. This would have been an easy fix by dropping things along the season. But they didn’t.

 

[Ronin'sCreamyCandle]

Yes. The Anne Rice episode. I am familiar with it.

I am serious that it polled high with women when it aired. I was there.

 

[jaime]

Same phenomenon happened in the UK in 2010, when the 'neither left nor right' Lib Dems went full-on austerity when they jumped into bed with the Tories as part of the coalition.

To make this on topic, I do think that Star Trek has always been far more conservative than it's let on. Viewers might have been far less comfortable with it if Fed Headquarters was on another planet, most members of Starfleet another species etc, rather than a de facto human empire. Humans definitely do have a 'first among equals' status as far as we see. And that's not to even mention things like the 'root beer' conversation, which basically boils down to "if you don't like American culture it's because you don't know it well enough, it gets everyone in the end".

It is interesting — the boomers we are talking about are the TNG crew. They were ‘woke’ before it was a world popular slang thing or a pejorative.
It’s like complaining if due to some weird SF event Nelson Mandela and MLK were brought back to save the day when people at a modern civil rights march were suddenly all incapacitated.

 

[TRON JA307020]

So the bridge still holds up fantastically. It still seems like a futuristic setting. It holds up just as good as the Titans Bridge. Even more so in my opinion because it's well lit, smooth and simple. The L cars still look fantastic.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

You're being a bully. Nothing more, nothing less.

Alas poor @LongHauler, we hardly knew ye.

 

[Citiprime]

As others have noted, nostalgia is a powerful tool, a drug at times. There is a measure of comfort food to TNG that impacts others that doesn't have the same impact on me. I'm less inclined towards comfort food viewing and so when a show attempts to capitalize on it I immediately hold it at arms length.

Season 3 may benefit for me on a rewatch. Once the nostalgia passes.

You typed so much but actually said literally nothing. Tell me how this is a well crafted season of Star Trek. I'm all ears.

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding about what this series is and what it is attempting to be. This is an entire series built upon nostalgia for a character and for that character's era of Star Trek. That is the baseline upon which everything else is built upon. People are entitled to like it or dislike it, but I don't understand the shock or surprise from some about how the series is structured around both nostalgia for a past time, and how these classic characters interact with each other once again.

As far as how this is a "well-crafted season of Star Trek," again, this fundamentally misunderstands what this show is setting out to do. You may think it needs to be different, but I'm judging it on its own terms. And when you get down in the weeds of arguing about the plot mechanics of the conspiracy plot, it misses the forest for the trees. This is like all of those old articles which used to argue that Marvel and the MCU had a "villain problem." The first Avengers film is not really about Loki (or even Thanos and the Infinity Stone saga plot). It is paper thin (i.e., scepter mind controls people to help create a giant hole in the sky) and only the window dressing the story uses to explore the interactions between the characters of the titular team, using both the nostalgia that comes with the history of those character's backstory and seeing them work together through a problem.

The themes of Picard season 3 is NOT really centered around the conspiracy plot. It is about the power that comes through found family, the strength and hope that one can find in accepting our past and how that defines who we are (e.g. Data's victory over Lore), and how these characters interact and support each other. That is true for every featured character, whether it be Data, Riker, Troi, or Picard. The Changeling/Borg plot is only a means to an end.

 

[The_Baroness]

One thing occurred to me...

Is this organic transmitter unique to Locutus, or does it affect all drones?

Could that be why in the alternate endgame future, Tuvok had lost his marbles?

If the abilities it grants skips a generation....could Miral Paris be affected the same way as Jack?

I'm assuming it's unique, otherwise why do they need Picards body and not literally any other drone.

 

[gvn2fly]

Vadic didn’t seem to have physical access to the Borg, When Jack arrives in the nebula, there’s nothing there. It’s only after they knew he had come that the cube transwarped in. Judging by the state of the interior, that cube might not have had the power for more than one trip, so they weren’t going to travel to the alpha quadrant in-person until the plan was ready, lest they get discovered and shot down before they took over Starfleet.

I’d imagine the Queen being on the other side of the galaxy is also what necessitated Vadic’s esoteric method of communicators. Long distance, untraceable, unfakable.

Then how did the Queen and Vadic first communicate/meet?

 

[gvn2fly]

Even if Picard just waited a little longer before telling Jack, the attack/takeover wouldn't have happened or at least the Changelings would have had to find another excuse to bring the fleet together.

Presumably, the Borg could still use Jack to send out the assimilation signal even if the fleet wasn't together.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

If Picard and Crusher end up together, I might scream. Not in a good way. One, Crusher, doesn’t deserve Picard. Two, they’ve made no effort to make that happen. It would be unearned. Three, I like Laris. And it would make me look at JL in a most unflattering light.

I would LAUGH ENDLESSLY if they opt for neither Crusher nor Laris and have

Spoiler

Jean-Luc dying and then ending up gallivanting around the universe, exploring all those plains of existence with Q

Seriously. I don't drink alcohol but I would be VERY tempted to buy and then open a bottle of champagne.

Seriously tho, I agree, it would NOT be like Jean-Luc AT ALL to dump Laris just because Crusher and he have a son. Especially not since he and Crusher tried to have a go at being a couple five times already and it didn't work out. How many more failed attempts do they need? But then, you also have to keep in mind that this show is written by an absolute fanboy. Same goes for the possible continuation/spin-off, and fanboy thinking is always "I want what TNG never had but I always wanted for it to have" and he might just opt for throwing them back together after all, just to collect one more apple from the "fanboy dreams coming to life" tree.

But still, Laris might actually really have a different opinion here. She is all set to peacefully live with him on that Romulan planet and now suddenly he has a son who will no doubt pull him back to space and elsewhere again because Jack is as much a guy who gets into trouble as his father is. If I were Laris I would at least raise an eyebrow at this because we all know how Jean-Luc likes to rush to peoples' aid and ends up in constant trouble because of it. Anyone who dates him has to keep this in mind. He himself said it, he's ready for a new adventure. The moment he said that... if I had been Laris, my alarm bells would have gone off. Because, Jean-Luc, honey? NO. NO! Shoo!

 

[jaime]

I am serious that it polled high with women when it aired. I was there.

Me too. It did. I have no problem with it — most of the negative press that episode gets is down to a little bit of… puritanical stuff. (And the fact that yes, it is very Mayfair Witches) It is a supernatural romance novel pastiche, but to be honest, I wonder if people would have a problem if it was Kirk or Archer getting down with a space Succubus.

Poor Beverly does run into borderline supernatural stuff a lot.