• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x09 - "Võx"

Engage!


  • Total voters
    357
They should have introduced the crew by showing everyone doing their jobs as they approached the Armagosa array or something.
That would have been better. Have them doing a basic mission and "Oops, something went wrong." And then it all ties back together and Data's head ends up under San Francisco.
TOS probably had the most realistic space battles, everything since then has all of the combatants silly close.
I mean, it's drama not science.

Probably junk science, but hey, it's Star Trek.
See above ;)
Another YouTube advance reviewer has confirmed Shaw and Shelby
are dead
.

They also said the odds of Star Trek: Legacy now are like 0.01111% :wah:
All those surprised please raise your hand.
 
So, your answer is, when given information as to why the writers did something, is to then decide it wasn’t necessary anyway? You appear to want stories where everything is new, yet nothing is new, where things happen for clear reasons, but also do not happen at all, that hark back to the good old days, but also you think the good old days did not happen, as they were also rubbish.
It must be very difficult to find such things.
You also seem to wish to discuss these things, without ever actually discussing.
Since you are watching this show, is there anything that makes you decide to watch it? That you enjoy? Anything about Trek in general?

That isn't what I said at all.
 
Maybe that Changeling was just very stupid? Or misunderstood the plan?

Fuck, the entire Federation might have been saved if Seven hadn't saved Jack!

The Queen did have to keep reiterating that getting Jack wasn’t a “dead or alive” thing to Vadic, maybe the Changelings thought he was optional for some reason. Though, in that specific case, the one on the Titan only left Jack alone after he heard Seven say she was coming to get him, it’s possible if rescue wasn’t imminent he would’ve shoved him into the corridor on his way out.
 
That's an interesting real-world note, and I learnt something today! But I have to disagree here -- the D had crash landed and appeared to be a wreck. So it was not just a matter of maintaining her, but of rebuilding her, or near enough.
So this actually came up as well during the production of DS9's battle scenes. Back in the TNG days, Gene Roddenberry had this idea that only 6 Galaxy class starships would be built (with another 6 hull skeletons ready to be built) because of the huge amount of resources building them would take. And indeed, the USS Galaxy's production was supposed to take many years. This is connected to the whole early TNG haziness over "What is the Federation" "What is Starfleet" "How big is everything" that didn't start to get sorted until really TNG Season 5, and not really formalized until it was forced to for the Dominion War in Season 4 / Season 5 of DS9. To put it simply though, 6 Galaxy class ships existing and losing 39 ships at Wolf 359, could have been like 1/4th the fleet as envisioned at that point. The whole, DS9 thing of 300+ Battlegroups came way later, as the war story demanded large fleet action.

So how do you square the two: this idea thatGalaxy's were hard to build and rare (which was consistent in TNG) but showing a lot of them in DS9 being the largest Federation ships in Battlegroups? I believe the Battle of Cardassia had 5 Galaxy class ships?

I think Memory Alpha or Ex Astris did the footwork on this an enumerated all the ships through research, but iirc, the number of featured Galaxy class ships, if you include the ones that showed up in Voyager too, exceeds the 6 original + 6 skeleton = 12 hull count.

The way this was justified in the 1990s by producers is that the Dominion War-era Galaxy class hulls and saucers were mostly empty. Basically they weren't filled with labs or crew quarters or 15 different eating facilities, or crewed by 1000 people. For the purpose of the War, the Federation took the the Galaxy class design, and built a minimum version of it. A ship that travels fast and has all the weapons, power and sensors, but none of the science abilities, and run by a much smaller crew. That way the fleet could have the capitol ships and the shipyards could crank them out. The idea the producers had is that after the war, Starfleet would complete these "barebones" Galaxy class ships.

Applying this to the Enterprise D museum ship, while Geordi has been meticulously restoring it for 20 years, there is similarly no reason to think every aspect of her has been fully internally rebuilt. Do all the areas that were crushed when the saucer landed have replicators, beds, furniture, sonic showers etc? Probably not. If they aren't on the tour, they'd be extras until the ship was up and running and able to do her duties. It seems logical that Geordi would focus on that Dominion War model of getting the "meat and potatoes" Galaxy class up to speed, and then filling in the rest as needed.

And given that the Stardrive is from the USS Syracuse, the rebuilding is actually less than meets the eye. He'll need to do whatever the Syracuse stardrive needs, but the major rebuilding would be largely confined to the damaged section of the lower saucer. After 20 years, Starfleet could readily do that.

These are good questions for producers, but in my head canon, I'm gonna think that this Enterprise D has the commonly traveled areas restored, but if you went to Worf's old quarters or something, there would be either a locked door blocking an unfinished section, or an empty room that would get bunks for a crew in a 60 day emergency reactivation.
 
Last edited:
9/10
I'm a little miffed that the Borg are revealed to be the big bad, but not surprised since I heard Alice Krige speaking in one of Jack visions a while ago. Thankfully, more happens in this episode that covers for that. This felt like a more cohesive TNG reunion than any episode so far, it just a shame that it's happening right at the end. I don't know if Jack is gonna get out of this one. It was a touching scene with Data and Picard in the observation lounge, maybe a nice callback to First Contact. It nice to see the Enterprise-D again, even though it might be something of Frankenstein's monster built with parts from different Galaxy class starships.

I wonder if the Changelings knew that they were working for the Borg? Where are many of them now? Why did anyone need Picard's body? It seems Jack was all that was necessary.
 
Last edited:
The way I'm seeing it is that it ultimately shouldn't matter for the Changelings whether Jack's abilities are awakened or not, his main utility that we saw on screen is being plugged into the Borg hive mind when the Queen is ready to send the signal to everyone who expresses the receiver gene. The fact that he can telepathically control other people is probably just a side effect.
And I am betting that his powers being awakened before he got plugged in is going to be instrumental to defeating the Queen.
 
I just realized that since the borg DNA has been added to all the oldesters as well, that kind of implies that everyone who has been in a transporter will now pass that crap on to their children, much as Picard passed his own borg DNA on to Jack.

I would assume that the Changelings weren't able to put the new DNA into the transporters until after they stole Picard's first body just a few weeks before S3E1, so presumably they haven't had enough time to get most people to pass on the mutation to their children.

For a bit of nightmare fuel, I do wonder about what the Borg signal might be doing to any infants that might have transported, though.

Another YouTube advance reviewer has confirmed Shaw and Shelby
are dead
.

They also said the odds of Star Trek: Legacy now are like 0.01111% :wah:

Well, if a YouTuber says that Star Trek: Legacy isn't happening, then it definitely must be true!

(Not that there was ever any serious indication of studio interest in Legacy in the first place.)
 
Why would you need a YouTube reviewer for either of those confirmations?

They both very clearly die - the story doesn't work if they are still alive.
latest


Because this is Star Trek not some other Sci-Fi franchise. And in Star Trek, for officers, dead doesn't actually mean dead, just mostly dead, which means slightly alive.
 
Because this is Star Trek not some other Sci-Fi franchise. And in Star Trek for officers dead doesn't actually mean dead, just mostly dead, which means slightly alive.

For main characters, sure. For guest stars? Not really.
 
But in Star Trek, most officers get commissioned as ensigns at around the age of 23.

Well, yeah, but just because you can be a junior officer at 23 does not make it the median age.


Like it or not, they established very early in the season that the Titan bridge crew mostly consists of junior officers. Add to that the fact that different species' prefrontal cortexes might finish developing a few years later than in Humans, and the fact that a lot of the Titan bridge crew aren't Human? You have a recipe for a lot of 20-something bridge officers to become Borg, and it's fairly consistent with typical Trek canon.

I understand why the story needed this to happen, but within universe it's just not plausible to me that Shaw would want to have such an inexperienced crew - not if the Titan remains a pretty prestigious assignment even after the retirement of Riker.

The bridge crews don't have to consist of Space Zoomers for them to seize control of ships relatively quickly. Those assimilations happened fast, there are young officers all over the ships, and nobody else even knows what's going on. All they know is that within thirty seconds, their junior officers go from being non-verbal to shooting everybody. It's completely plausible that between that and the Borg hacking the ships' computer systems that they'd be able to seize control of most bridges pretty fast.

I dunno. I mean, I think back to TNG, and not one of the characters on the bridge regularly (other than Wesley) was under 25. On DS9, all the characters in Ops were canonically older (I think Bashir was meant to be in his late 20s). On Voyager, only Kim was meant to be under 25 (Kes would count too, but not on the bridge). I don't think the ages of the TOS characters were ever established - it's plausible that Chekov was meant to be under 25, though we don't know for certain. The fact remains that in the vast majority of ships we've seen, there has been 0-1 people under 25 on the bridge at any time.

I would assume that there are plenty of older officers still alive but in retreat and not in control of their ships.

I'm sure exactly as many will survive as future stories need, but the fact remains this is an unforced error on the part of the showrunners - to imply this is all Starfleet ships everywhere.
 
Another YouTube advance reviewer has confirmed Shaw and Shelby
are dead
.

They also said the odds of Star Trek: Legacy now are like 0.01111% :wah:

I mean, the deaths are easy enough to confirm if they've seen screeners up to ep10, but why would yon YouTuber have solid knowledge about what's on the slate?
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top