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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x09 - "Võx"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
They’ll show in Discovery I’ll bet.
For me I approach this episode from two perspectives.
First, is the narrative/story. There are a lot of good things to it, but it isn’t perfect. So, the good:
The nefarious plot is actually cool and interesting, and actually terrifying…you’re being assimilated without any contact with the Borg and you don’t even know it until they flip a switch. The whole nefarious plot is a revenge team up of the Federation’s strongest and most intractable enemies, ones who the Federation had to (or thought they had to, it’s sometimes debatable) do some unethical things to defeat. The motivations for the Borg and changelings doing this makes sense and is logical. I see some criticism that it’s a “kid smashing action figures together plot” but it’s very consistent with where things were left at the end of DS9, FC, and VOY. So, I’m into it! It is VASTLY (and I mean, vastly…like, the size of the known universe vastly) better than the villain plot in NEM which I maintain is the singular worst thing the franchise had produced and it isn’t close.
I also don’t really feel the Borg fatigue that some seem to. This is a unique spin on the Borg and something new. It’s interesting too, and there’s a nice through line from BOBW to VOY to FC to this episode. It really brings home what a truly life-altering experience being assimilated was for JLP. The poor guy. You think he felt guilt over Wolf 359? To carry this around would drive most people insane. This might not be fair but the Borg returning and in this manner is much, much better than Star Wars episode 9 and Palpatine. Why make the comparison? The Borg are TNG’s and Picard’s and Janeway’s foil. You might even say nemesis (yet another reason that movie was a war crime). They’re Trek’s Palpatine. Their appearance here is 1000x more organic and logical and believable than his return in episode 9. SW fans (and I am one, but Trek is my OG thing) have every right to feel insulted by that. The vibe here is different and better. Last point about this: I feel like it wasn’t planned and they kind of backed into it by accident but the story of this particular episode was decades in the making, it turns out.
What weakens it a little is that it’s so late in the season, so this huge universe altering thing will happen and be resolved very quickly. It takes the bite out of it. Vadic was fun but all that faffing about took time away from this, which is way cooler. Also, it’s kind of undermined from behind the scenes issues. This should have been season 1. Get this resolved, do the reunion thing, and then move on to new things. But instead, we had those other 2 seasons which are what they are and make this a little odd to see at this moment. But there’s nothing to do about that. Alas.
Ok, so now for the second thing…the elephant errrr Enterprise in the room. I need to give some background here and it’s long and dumb, and you don’t know me, but I guess I need to type this out for myself, so feel free to skip it…
I am 44 years old. I watched TOS and the movies with my dad and loved them from probably when I was 4 years old. I remember when TNG was announced. I learned about it from newspapers in the summer before I was in 3rd grade. I remember a whole promo on the back of a Honey Nut Cheerios box that had cast bios and photos and a picture of the Enterprise D. It was the first glimpse (for me) of TNG. I was FURIOUS. I hated it. I wanted Kirk. I remember telling my parents “that’s not the Enterprise, who is this dumb looking bald guy with the weird name, it’s not Star Trek…” All the stuff you still see in fandom sometimes, I was doing at 8 years old. I was allowed to stay up past my bedtime in September of 1987 to watch the pilot. I was MESMERIZED. In less than 1 hour of the first episode I was completely hooked on TNG. I recorded every episode and watched the multiple times. I role-played. I had posters, toys, the whole bit. I was the kid in Galaxy Quest about it. It just hit me at the right time in the right way and I have never been a fan of something like I have been of TNG, as much as I might love the whole franchise.
During TNG season 3, when it got even better, my younger brother fell ill with what would turn out to be a chronic and debilitating neurological illness that would still affect him to this day. My normal life was rocked by this, and TNG was my comfort. I internalized so much of the fear and sadness and TNG (and therapy) helped me work though all of it. I met my best friend at the time because we discovered we were both fans of TNG. At the end of TNG’s final season in 1994, I was finishing 9th grade. Where I went to school, grades 7-9 were in the same building, and then you go somewhere else for 10-12. So, it’s the end of 9th grade, I’m 15, being all angsty like normal 15 year olds are. My brother was getting sicker, and we needed to move to an accessible home. It happened during the last 4 weeks of season 7. I’m about to go to a new school in the fall, I have to leave my beloved childhood home, and my brother’s body is betraying him in so many new and frightening ways. And that’s when TNG ended. I was so sad. DS9 helped but it didn’t feel as comforting. I ended up fine, and my brother is doing better now than we was back then thanks to some new treatments.
What’s the point of all of this? This will seem dumb as hell, but TNG, and the Enterprise D have a deep emotional significance to me because of what are essentially accidents of circumstance. Even dumber, I view them as being one of the most important parts of my young life and growing up. I was sad and angry when the D was destroyed in a dumb way in a mediocre movie. I was even angrier still that the TNG movies never recaptured the magic of the show. And the ending of the TNG part of the franchise was so bitter and cynical that I almost completely washed my hands of the franchise.
This season of PIC redeems so much of that. And the ending of this episode…it fixes so much that went wrong post season 7. I saw the ending of this episode and I am not lying when I tell you that I UGLY cried. It hit me so hard. I was instantly transported back to being a little kid again. It meant so much to see this happen all these years later. I know that not everyone watching will have or share these feelings nor view it this way. But I found it so deeply meaningful and personal to me. My only hope is that for fans who feel this way about things like DS9 and VOY can be moved as I was today one day. Yes, it’s nostalgia (which is not objectively bad but that’s a different discussion), but the way things were left with TNG was so unsatisfying that I can be more than happy with it.
So, I really can’t assess this episode objectively. I’m fine with that. What a ride this season is. Never in a million years did I ever think I would get the chance to see TNG characters and my very favorite Enterprise be treated with love and care like this. I know the plot/structure/production pragmatics that come with modern streaming television work against this a bit, but I can’t be moved to care. For this particular fan, this episode feels like coming home to my childhood home that I left right at the end of the show. I am so moved by it. Whatever happens I will be grateful for having the chance to experience this today. I’m sorry if that’s dumb.
This is too long…back to nitpicking…were the nacelles long enough?
First, is the narrative/story. There are a lot of good things to it, but it isn’t perfect. So, the good:
The nefarious plot is actually cool and interesting, and actually terrifying…you’re being assimilated without any contact with the Borg and you don’t even know it until they flip a switch. The whole nefarious plot is a revenge team up of the Federation’s strongest and most intractable enemies, ones who the Federation had to (or thought they had to, it’s sometimes debatable) do some unethical things to defeat. The motivations for the Borg and changelings doing this makes sense and is logical. I see some criticism that it’s a “kid smashing action figures together plot” but it’s very consistent with where things were left at the end of DS9, FC, and VOY. So, I’m into it! It is VASTLY (and I mean, vastly…like, the size of the known universe vastly) better than the villain plot in NEM which I maintain is the singular worst thing the franchise had produced and it isn’t close.
I also don’t really feel the Borg fatigue that some seem to. This is a unique spin on the Borg and something new. It’s interesting too, and there’s a nice through line from BOBW to VOY to FC to this episode. It really brings home what a truly life-altering experience being assimilated was for JLP. The poor guy. You think he felt guilt over Wolf 359? To carry this around would drive most people insane. This might not be fair but the Borg returning and in this manner is much, much better than Star Wars episode 9 and Palpatine. Why make the comparison? The Borg are TNG’s and Picard’s and Janeway’s foil. You might even say nemesis (yet another reason that movie was a war crime). They’re Trek’s Palpatine. Their appearance here is 1000x more organic and logical and believable than his return in episode 9. SW fans (and I am one, but Trek is my OG thing) have every right to feel insulted by that. The vibe here is different and better. Last point about this: I feel like it wasn’t planned and they kind of backed into it by accident but the story of this particular episode was decades in the making, it turns out.
What weakens it a little is that it’s so late in the season, so this huge universe altering thing will happen and be resolved very quickly. It takes the bite out of it. Vadic was fun but all that faffing about took time away from this, which is way cooler. Also, it’s kind of undermined from behind the scenes issues. This should have been season 1. Get this resolved, do the reunion thing, and then move on to new things. But instead, we had those other 2 seasons which are what they are and make this a little odd to see at this moment. But there’s nothing to do about that. Alas.
Ok, so now for the second thing…the elephant errrr Enterprise in the room. I need to give some background here and it’s long and dumb, and you don’t know me, but I guess I need to type this out for myself, so feel free to skip it…
I am 44 years old. I watched TOS and the movies with my dad and loved them from probably when I was 4 years old. I remember when TNG was announced. I learned about it from newspapers in the summer before I was in 3rd grade. I remember a whole promo on the back of a Honey Nut Cheerios box that had cast bios and photos and a picture of the Enterprise D. It was the first glimpse (for me) of TNG. I was FURIOUS. I hated it. I wanted Kirk. I remember telling my parents “that’s not the Enterprise, who is this dumb looking bald guy with the weird name, it’s not Star Trek…” All the stuff you still see in fandom sometimes, I was doing at 8 years old. I was allowed to stay up past my bedtime in September of 1987 to watch the pilot. I was MESMERIZED. In less than 1 hour of the first episode I was completely hooked on TNG. I recorded every episode and watched the multiple times. I role-played. I had posters, toys, the whole bit. I was the kid in Galaxy Quest about it. It just hit me at the right time in the right way and I have never been a fan of something like I have been of TNG, as much as I might love the whole franchise.
During TNG season 3, when it got even better, my younger brother fell ill with what would turn out to be a chronic and debilitating neurological illness that would still affect him to this day. My normal life was rocked by this, and TNG was my comfort. I internalized so much of the fear and sadness and TNG (and therapy) helped me work though all of it. I met my best friend at the time because we discovered we were both fans of TNG. At the end of TNG’s final season in 1994, I was finishing 9th grade. Where I went to school, grades 7-9 were in the same building, and then you go somewhere else for 10-12. So, it’s the end of 9th grade, I’m 15, being all angsty like normal 15 year olds are. My brother was getting sicker, and we needed to move to an accessible home. It happened during the last 4 weeks of season 7. I’m about to go to a new school in the fall, I have to leave my beloved childhood home, and my brother’s body is betraying him in so many new and frightening ways. And that’s when TNG ended. I was so sad. DS9 helped but it didn’t feel as comforting. I ended up fine, and my brother is doing better now than we was back then thanks to some new treatments.
What’s the point of all of this? This will seem dumb as hell, but TNG, and the Enterprise D have a deep emotional significance to me because of what are essentially accidents of circumstance. Even dumber, I view them as being one of the most important parts of my young life and growing up. I was sad and angry when the D was destroyed in a dumb way in a mediocre movie. I was even angrier still that the TNG movies never recaptured the magic of the show. And the ending of the TNG part of the franchise was so bitter and cynical that I almost completely washed my hands of the franchise.
This season of PIC redeems so much of that. And the ending of this episode…it fixes so much that went wrong post season 7. I saw the ending of this episode and I am not lying when I tell you that I UGLY cried. It hit me so hard. I was instantly transported back to being a little kid again. It meant so much to see this happen all these years later. I know that not everyone watching will have or share these feelings nor view it this way. But I found it so deeply meaningful and personal to me. My only hope is that for fans who feel this way about things like DS9 and VOY can be moved as I was today one day. Yes, it’s nostalgia (which is not objectively bad but that’s a different discussion), but the way things were left with TNG was so unsatisfying that I can be more than happy with it.
So, I really can’t assess this episode objectively. I’m fine with that. What a ride this season is. Never in a million years did I ever think I would get the chance to see TNG characters and my very favorite Enterprise be treated with love and care like this. I know the plot/structure/production pragmatics that come with modern streaming television work against this a bit, but I can’t be moved to care. For this particular fan, this episode feels like coming home to my childhood home that I left right at the end of the show. I am so moved by it. Whatever happens I will be grateful for having the chance to experience this today. I’m sorry if that’s dumb.
This is too long…back to nitpicking…were the nacelles long enough?
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I would pay good money to hear a voice of the Collective pop up, and then a switch to Kovich taking off his glasses, pausing, saying something to the effect of "Not this week", and pushes a button that triggers some technology squashes them again. Then he goes back to dissecting Andorian fruit flies or something.They’ll show in Discovery I’ll bet.
I believe the Borg should have remained dead after the series finale for "Voyager".
And honestly, thank God/Q/whomever. What a waste.
So has it been 10 years since they engaged the Borg? Was that reference not counting picard meeting the queen?
They might as well go full fangasm and get seven to command voyager and Raffi to command defiant... worf can then lecture her on how she isnt handling the ship properly
I feel like Nemsis was caught up trying to compete with Star Wars.
Attack of the clones!
Oh Picard has a clone! and he's attacking!!
I do kind of wish they had waited another few years beyond 2002 until Star Wars had completed the prequel trilogy and then done the last TNG film, but cest la vie
Worf is going to lose his cool if he spills his chamomille tea.
I did like that Enterprise episode from 2004 though. That should have been the last one. It came full circle with Q-Who?
Admiral Janeway's been delayed as the drones aren't finished loading all the coffee aboard the Voyager-B yet. 
TNG did not have a single two-parter where the second part surpassed the first other than Chain of Command. They all had promising setups, but whiffed the conclusion.
I agree 100%, but somehow Discovery forgot this at the end of Season 4 so...
I'm guessing we're not going to see much of the Enterprise-F at all. That shot on the bridge was extremely tight, like they were trying to avoid showing too much. And the more I look at it, the more it looks like they just repainted that portion of the Discovery bridge and switched out the Captain's chair.
Nothing about that sequence was comedic. It was horrifying, as it was intended to be.
I would assume that that is a character speaking off the top of their head and getting the date wrong, but yeah they're definitely not counting the Jurati-Queen or the Confederation Timeline Queen. The last contact anyone had with the main Borg that we the audience know of would be the USS Protostar's encounter with a small Borg cube in "Let Sleeping Borg Lie" in 2384, almost twenty years before this episode.
She wants him there. We can assume she’s either nearer by than we might think, or has a bit of transwarp network left to invite him in. Probably, she’s just nearer by than we might think though.
Yup, your typical Trek money saving method of reutilizing bridges.
That was the Stargazer/Titan bridge, not Discovery. The giant door behind her gives it away...