Yeah, true.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x08 - "Surrender"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Yeah, true.
A
Amaris
Guest
Murray's "Buy Here Pay Here" in the Valley. Nothing over 25,000,000 light years.
I've come to this viewpoint as the series has progressed. I still hope they stuck the landing - and that we find out what the hell Jack is. But as someone who has always had to find characters enjoyable to be able to care about what they do, and who has always really liked this cast and how well they work together, I've been pretty pleased with things so far.
Alright, following up on this. I had a sincerely negative reaction to this scene, as opposed to just the usual half-serious snark, which surprised me. "Nepenthe" isn't a particular favorite of mine; putting aside the obvious (*points at signature*), I just think it's a mess when it comes to tone and pacing, with its main virtues being the introduction of Kestra, finally giving Soji some agency seven episodes in, and giving Sirtis her best Trek material to date, none of which are retroactively impacted by this episode. Plus Troi and Riker aren't characters I'm especially attached to, so I don't feel like my response is down to any particular protectiveness wrt the writers exploring them as conflicted, imperfect people as opposed to an ever-and-always mutually supportive OTP. So I had to chew on this a little.
I think part of it comes down to an issue with the PIC format - the audience has been asked many times over the course of the series to get invested in the resolutions to emotionally fraught issues that happened mostly or entirely off-screen. Some have been more successful than others, but most of them do require a certain amount of heavy lifting and/or trust on the part of the viewer. So being offered another exposition dump, this time on Will and Deanna's marital troubles, was kind of wearying to start. Then there's the business of one of the big contributions to their estrangement being Troi trying force an allegedly healthier emotional state on Riker, which isn't necessarily something I think is too great an ask so far as believably goes, but a) is a deep enough violation of trust that it didn't feel like it should have been resolved in a three minute conversation and b) meta-wise, felt a lot like an unnecessarily convoluted response to a problem that already had an obvious answer.
Because the actual problem here isn't the Troi-Riker family's grief, it's that Matalas & co need them willing to throw back in with heroic hijinks on Picard's behalf and, potentially, in place for a spinoff, and that's a lot harder to do when the characters are off homesteading on the final frontier. We already know that going to Nepenthe was a choice made under duress - moving there was a last ditch attempt to save their dying child and it failed. The way Troi explained the situation to Soji made it clear that the family was living atop Thad's metaphorical grave. But also, Nepenthe was a place Thad loved and the family's last connection to him. With all of that already in place, it seems that the straightest line, then, for both fomenting and resolving the conflict would be to make the "I hate that house" bits not the comedic palate cleanser, but the heart of the problem - neither of them were happy there, surrounded by the memory of failure and loss, but aren't in the same place with regard to letting it go until they hash it out. Because I felt just about every other element worked - Riker having to numb himself, Troi's frustration and isolation, and so on - but then when it came to the actual heart of the conflict, it was more "tell don't show" when it didn't fully have to be. We saw Nepenthe, we saw what an idyllic, cottagecore paradise it seemed, and how it was sold to the audience as a place of sanctuary. And I can't help but think what a fantastic gut punch it would have been for one (or even both!) of the Troi-Rikers to, for example, baldly state that seeming paradise was, in actuality, hell for them to wake up to every morning and that they felt like they were soldiering on through that hell alone. And the resolution as it stands feels like such an whiff in an episode where I'm already not that invested in the drawn-out main storyline/mystery that it just particularly stuck in my craw.
TL;DR - There were already story elements present that could have made the Riker/Troi character progression smoother, and I am miffed by the fact that the writers went a more convoluted route in a season where my engagement already isn't all I'd like it to be.
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It is entirely possible, that *this* is what the story is. It’s TMP, III and V, possibly VI all rolled into one. Only without shonky FX for V.
The whole season should finish with them sitting round a campfire singing ‘Row, Row, Row Your Boat’.
And how New-Data will laugh.
The End.
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I'm beginning to understand why they ditched the S1 Picard cast (Who needs Soji when you've got the OG Data back?
)
I'm glad they nodded to Deanna and Beverly's friendship. I remember how I loved it back in the day, especially as there were few (any?) positive female friendships on tv at the time.
I'm beginning to understand why they ditched the S1 Picard cast (Who needs Soji when you've got the OG Data back?
Soji was a standout for me in Season 1, but to be fair she was dumped right back in episode 1 of Season 2.
I'm not too concerned about what Jack is. Unlike other people, I haven't spent eight episodes wondering "What's Jack? What's Jack? What's Jack?!" What I've been interested in is how the TNG crew gets back together, what Vadic would do next, what her motivation was, and now about the Rouge Changelings and what they're going to do during Frontier Day.
Other people ask, "What is Jack?" I ask, "When are we going to see the Enterprise-D? When is Janeway going to appear? And how are they going to expose the Changelings?" We'll see them when we see them.
Other people ask, "What is Jack?" I ask, "When are we going to see the Enterprise-D? When is Janeway going to appear? And how are they going to expose the Changelings?" We'll see them when we see them.
Is it wrong I care more about seeing the ships at Frontier Day than I am learning Jack's "secret"?
I don't think so. I don't mind Jack but I'm not going to pretend he's not near the bottom of my priorities for enjoying this season.
I don't think so. I don't mind Jack but I'm not going to pretend he's not near the bottom of my priorities for enjoying this season.
I feel like his secret is just eating up a lot of screentime. I predict the revelation will not be big enough to justify stretching it out this long.
^
THIS.
Even if he turned out being possessed by a Pah Wraith as some joint plot to wreak revenge on the Federation for the Dominion's defeat in the war - as ridiculous as that would be - it would probably still be more engaging than what we'll actually get.
THIS.
Even if he turned out being possessed by a Pah Wraith as some joint plot to wreak revenge on the Federation for the Dominion's defeat in the war - as ridiculous as that would be - it would probably still be more engaging than what we'll actually get.
Y’all can rest easy now. I solved the mystery over in the mastermind thread. Guaranteed to please…everybody. (Or…not.
)
Jack is a Changeling/Human fusion.
How do you know he’s not a Human/Changeling fusion?
I say potato, you say starchy, inanimate tuber that would be easy to mimic in shape.
That was a very nice touch. I really liked that too. I kind of wish Deanna got to the Titan sooner. But she did have some really nice scenes in this episode.
Jack's secret isn't much on my mind either. We already know what he can do. And it's extremely likely that the Changelings wanted to use his ability to control people to cause chaos, which Section 31 designed them to do.
So, that's a lot of the mystery right there. And sure there could be more to what he can do. But mainly we just don't know why he can control others. The history behind that.
Now my guess is it's Borg/Locutus related. Seems like the evidence so far is mostly pointing that direction. However, those details probably won't add a lot to the story.
But whether or not that's the case, I think there's going to be a bigger twist. Another big bad has been promised. And it doesn't have to be the Borg, but something that wants to use Borg tech for their own ends.
I don't know who/what it will be but it's kind of like just picking a name out of the hat. There are various possibilities, and it really could any number of them. The journey to that point will probably be more entertaining than the actual reveal.
So, that's a lot of the mystery right there. And sure there could be more to what he can do. But mainly we just don't know why he can control others. The history behind that.
Now my guess is it's Borg/Locutus related. Seems like the evidence so far is mostly pointing that direction. However, those details probably won't add a lot to the story.
But whether or not that's the case, I think there's going to be a bigger twist. Another big bad has been promised. And it doesn't have to be the Borg, but something that wants to use Borg tech for their own ends.
I don't know who/what it will be but it's kind of like just picking a name out of the hat. There are various possibilities, and it really could any number of them. The journey to that point will probably be more entertaining than the actual reveal.
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