Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x08 - "Surrender"

[fireproof78]

Thanks for the clarification.

It has to be said though that Vadic is hardly the most stable individual and certainly makes choices based on the heart rather than the mind. She's obsessed and obsession can cause people to make mistakes.

Rather than being dumb, as has been pointed out, I think it's an instance of 'sheer fucking hubris'. She had control of the Titan's systems, having removed the ears, eyes and mobility of the crew. She thought she had it in the bag, but as any good Chess player knows, you have to focus on the whole board to avoid being blindsided. Data in this case was the element she failed to take into account.

I'd say her arrogance and overconfidence let her down, rather than stupidity.

Excellent and we'll put. Yes, indeed, she was overconfident and failed to account for all factors. That and her myopic view, and her fear of her boss all limited her view.

 

[NCC-73515]

That is why we saw the display of Datas neural net go from progressive red, to solid blue. It was meant to unmistakably show that Data is Data and that there is no villiany within him.

Conservative red to progressive blue
In my mind, that display became an election map

Well we finally got Captain Worf. Wonder if that was an editing error or production error.

why would it be an error? (See the novel, which TM said is at least partly 'canon', and the instagram stuff)

Well this version of Troi seems to have the ability to perform mind melds which I don't think she had the ability to do so before.

Jack can control bodies, so he can probably show her his visions. Or Troi simply heard his thoughts, as she can.

One thing I will say is that I think Jerry Goldsmith's Klingon theme is a bit overused with Worf in this series.

Not nearly as overused as the Shrike fart.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Let's just say that a polite way to describe it would be . . . inexpensive. But I've found it very watchable and entertaining.

I've been thinking about this and while I miss the glossy planets and location work from Season 1, it does feel very Star Trek for most of the action to take place aboard bridges of ships... I suppose it's less noticeable over a 10 hours series than it is over a 2 hour feature like TWOK. ]

It is a pity, but it doesn't bother me too much.

And besides, what human really wants to wither away and die of old age?

Nobody, but it's generally accepted death is what gives life meaning. The knowledge that our time is finite is what encourages us to achieve all that we can in the time we have. Otherwise we end up like the Q, bored by the fact that we can out sit eternity.

 

[Cortez]

Really though?
Outside of ‘what *really* is Jack Crusher’ and ‘what are they up to for federation day, and why does it involve Picards body’ the show has always answered its questions within an episode or two. In fact both of those questions are not the same questions we started the season with, and one of them is in part and answer to earlier questions. (Why is Starfleet being infiltrated and by whom? Why is everyone chasing down Beverly’s kid?)
Once you then throw in the smaller stories (‘why is the nebula weird?’ ‘What’s the deal at Daystrom?’ ‘Why did someone steal a weapon?and who, and why?’ ‘Who is Raffi’s handler?’ ‘Who put Worf on this job?’ ‘Who is Vadic?’ ‘Why the changelings?’) and other bits (Here’s how Data came back. Here’s where people have moved on and how they come back together’) then you have a multitude of stories, all part of one story, being set up and resolved as we go.
It’s layered, and themed, and some stuff you don’t find out til the end. Which we aren’t at yet.

To have gotten nowhere, would mean Picard (the central character) would still be tooling about wondering why Beverly sent the message, whilst sipping some wine and helping Laris pack her drawers for her trip.

Eight episodes in, with this entire season having bem designed purely to get the crew back together, which I would have no problem with if there weren't so many gaping holes in the plot. Their reunion doesn't feel earned because of the plethora of contrivances that we've had to swallow. And we're watched over 6 hours of film: TWOK, TSFS and TVH have a smaller run time than that. We'd probably have only seen Khan take control of the Reliant and celebrated Kirk's birthday at this stage if they took as long to get to the point.

Interesting that you should mention Laris. Eight episodes in and has Picard mentioned her much or even once while he gets cosy with Crusher?

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Eight episodes in <snip>

Nobody cares.

Your time of dominating this conversation is done. Nobody gives a shit about what you post.

 

[SAndrews10]

Wouldn’t it be funny if not only did they restore the D saucer section but they paired it with a new drive section complete with the third nacelle.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Nobody cares.

Your time of dominating this conversation is done. Nobody gives a shit about what you post.

And yet you keep responding to him. If you, @RuleofAcuisition17, and others are going to keep going at him, I'll hand out some reply bans so we can get the thread moving past this pissing match.

 

[Mr Awe]

I've been thinking about this and while I miss the glossy planets and location work from Season 1, it does feel very Star Trek for most of the action to take place aboard bridges of ships... I suppose it's less noticeable over a 10 hours series than it is over a 2 hour feature like TWOK. ]

Just to be clear, my comment that you quote was referring to The Ark, not Picard. I don't think Picard S3 is cheap.

 

[Danja]

I sat through the whole thing.


A waste of the great Amanda Plummer.

Such a great villain, reduced to a frozen meat popsicle!

 

[Noname Given]

I sat through the whole thing.


A waste of the great Amanda Plummer.

Such a great villain, reduced to a frozen meat monologueing protoplasm popsicle!

FTFY

 

[BBC 2 6pm]

The irony of Data calling someone out for monologuing, though!

 

[Skyshadow]

I really loved all the Riker/Troi stuff. It reminded me of my hubby and I. Geordi, Worf Raffi... everyone had great moments. I really didn't expect T'Veen's death! And yes, I teared up at Data and his memories of Tasha and Spot.

The way Lore was tossing those memories over his shoulder and they were vanishing but later revealed to have been integrated into Lore has me worried they will all get muddled up, Lore will have images of Tasha Yar laying down being stroked and petted by Data, while poor ole Spot....well we know where the babies came from now

 

[jaime]

Eight episodes in, with this entire season having bem designed purely to get the crew back together, which I would have no problem with if there weren't so many gaping holes in the plot. Their reunion doesn't feel earned because of the plethora of contrivances that we've had to swallow. And we're watched over 6 hours of film: TWOK, TSFS and TVH have a smaller run time than that. We'd probably have only seen Khan take control of the Reliant and celebrated Kirk's birthday at this stage if they took as long to get to the point.

Interesting that you should mention Laris. Eight episodes in and has Picard mentioned her much or even once while he gets cosy with Crusher?

When has he got cosy with crusher?
I do not see an unusual number of contrivances or plot holes.

 

[jaime]

Conservative red to progressive blue
In my mind, that display became an election map


why would it be an error? (See the novel, which TM said is at least partly 'canon', and the instagram stuff)


Jack can control bodies, so he can probably show her his visions. Or Troi simply heard his thoughts, as she can.


Not nearly as overused as the Shrike fart.

Red and Blue work the other way over here lol. Kind of.

 

[BBC 2 6pm]

Red and Blue work the other way over here lol. Kind of.

Yeah in most of Europe I think. Even Americans used to refer to communists as 'the reds'.

 

[KennyB]

I sat through the whole thing.


A waste of the great Amanda Plummer.

Such a great villain, reduced to a frozen meat popsicle!

Did you think she might win in the end?

 

[BBC 2 6pm]

Did you think she might win in the end?

Given the tragic backstory I had thought they might be going more for a reconciliation or at least some kind of understanding. Teaming up together once she saw how horrible the Face's plans were, or something.

I thought they hinted at this when Face ordered her to dismember one prisoner in front of the other. Given what she suffered, and her seeming shock at this, this could have been here "are we the baddies?" moment.

 

[johnnybear]

I do hope we see Laris again at the end of the series! But we were warned that she would be absent, although she did appear in the first episode as I recall...?
JB

 

[BBC 2 6pm]

I mean it is as it sounds. He's not part of Starfleet intelligence, she's just working with them.
Ro was his handler, I guess she wanted someone she trusted.

That makes sense, but it's a bit in tension with the heavy implication earlier that Worf was Raffi's handler. I can understand describing agents as subcontractors, but this makes Starfleet Intelligence seem more like a set of cells (which would make sense in the current context) or an MLM. Weird then that Ro says she has 2 agents, which in a cell structure is not something she would know about.

 

[jaime]

Given the tragic backstory I had thought they might be going more for a reconciliation or at least some kind of understanding. Teaming up together once she saw how horrible the Face's plans were, or something.

I thought they hinted at this when Face ordered her to dismember one prisoner in front of the other. Given what she suffered, and her seeming shock at this, this could have been here "are we the baddies?" moment.

Fundamentally, she didn’t then do that at least.