I appreciate you being an honest debater though and a good discussion partner.
I cannot say the same for the other mentioned party
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x08 - "Surrender"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I appreciate you being an honest debater though and a good discussion partner.
I cannot say the same for the other mentioned party
Well that seems to make sense, but then Data took over Lore via his memories, right? So it seems like if you have all of someone's memories you become that person?
Ditto, and thank you! And you seem nice and smart, unlike the other party on 'your side' too.
I wonder if the AI component of the memories makes a difference. Like it becomes more than a summation of the various parts that creates an AI construct built around the skeleton of memories.
Red vs. Blue kind of took this on too.
I think this type of villain is basically a stock character or archetype precisely because people enjoy it.
The whole thing about Data, etc...it goes back to the questions at the heart of "Measure of a Man"
What makes the person a person? what is sentience? what is the soul? Is a soul and spirit just a collection of memories, or is there something unknowable.
It is very Roddenberry and goes back to the same questions from TNG, and essentially it allows us to re-experience that journey again.
What makes the person a person? what is sentience? what is the soul? Is a soul and spirit just a collection of memories, or is there something unknowable.
It is very Roddenberry and goes back to the same questions from TNG, and essentially it allows us to re-experience that journey again.
More their experiences. Experiences change people and this gets wonderfully hazy when its robots basically copying memories and experiencing themselves. Androids dreaming of Electric Sheep n all that.
Data exploited the fact he knew Lore would keep them as Trophies to look at and crow to the crew about when Lore Took over.
Lore also outright states that he keeps them in his own memories as a measure of his own worth. His achievements, accomplishments etc. Data meanwhile, was given love, friendship, companionship and so has treasured memories which he freely gives to Lore knowing what his brother would do.
The experiences and memories change Lore completely, he incorporates them willingly initially to boast about to Data's friends to use against them. He understands now, and the end result is a new personality.
End result is someone new, but with the old Data at the core.
I actually wonder if Data really is Data, we saw the old one vanish willingly, and then the Lore personality also vanish, replaced with another Data-core inspired entity.
B4 parts was probably still struggling to sing Blue Skies and just went with whatever happened.
A
Amaris
Guest
Based on the personality and behavior of the Data personality in the mindscape battle post reconstitution, I think its the same Data.
IMO, this is Data. The crew are treating Data as their old friend and the same Data, just enjoying this new expansive personality and presence.
Geordi, Picard, Troi and Riker all behaved as though this is "their" Data, good enough for me.
IMO, this is Data. The crew are treating Data as their old friend and the same Data, just enjoying this new expansive personality and presence.
Geordi, Picard, Troi and Riker all behaved as though this is "their" Data, good enough for me.
"Endearing?" No. Enjoyable? Absolutely. Entertaining? Yup. Understandable and even has a tragic backstory? Yup, and yup.
It's about entertainment here.
To me, and my viewing of the scene, this was a new version of the Data they knew with some additional quirks. In other words, familiar enough while having some differences to get to know. Which is appealing to me because it shows how people can change and still be accepted by peers.
Once I decided she was smoking crazy amounts of weed, her behaviour made complete sense to me.
On the ease with which the Shrike was destroyed--when it first appeared they'd made a point of describing how super-duper loaded with ordnance it was. That cuts both ways--hit some of that ammo and the ship blows itself up.
The only thing I don't like about Data is that they had to put him in that 'golem' body. It kind of ruined it for me because it's so obvious they are doing it because the actor has aged and not because it served any purpose to the story. I would have preferred if they had just kept him un-aged in his original form as he was in STNG using makeup and AI or CGI.
De-aging CGI is really really expensive. Not sure they could afford it this season.
I mean, he also sort of didn't have a body any more either so he needed something.
Also, Data in TNG was stated to age.
Its a question about wanting Data to be able to experience humanity.
This is synthetic humanity.
This is quite literally the goal of Data's life.I'm not sure how it can be honestly stated that it serves no purpose for his story and infact offers *no* opportunities for growth and new experiences.
A decent watch but the weakest episode yet. Hated hated hated the way they buried season one, from Riker and Troi being rewritten from happily ever after together on Nepenthe to both hating it (because they're only happy on a starship, that's wHAt tHe faNS wAnT) and Data 2.0 and Picard's dismissal of Data's dying wish the second time (which is more forgivable, because nobody fucking wants a third Data death we're all sick of it) and killing off the best character in the entire show, Vadic? Oof.
Weaker than 17 seconds?
"We" are? I'm not...
Also, they literally lamp shade that death and acknowledge it. It's in the text!
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