Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x08 - "Surrender"

[Racefuel]

I thought Data's solution was pretty fun, and I got excited once I realized what he was doing just before they made it explicit.
By allowing Lore to take every bit of Data's memories, he essentially merged Data into himself. And Data was so much more than Lore, and Lore was so envious of Data, that ultimately this meant Lore was the one who took a back seat and got absorbed in the end.
Exciting stuff.

Lore was insecure, thus telling Data that Data was "less perfect".

Data and Lore were simply supposed to be two sides of the same coin, both representing Noonien Soong. Lore is the worst aspects of humanity let to develop badly with no restraints, Data was an artificially good construct of humanity that strived to be more than the sum of his programming.

 

[Mr Awe]

I thought Data's solution was pretty fun, and I got excited once I realized what he was doing just before they made it explicit.
By allowing Lore to take every bit of Data's memories, he essentially merged Data into himself. And Data was so much more than Lore, and Lore was so envious of Data, that ultimately this meant Lore was the one who took a back seat and got absorbed in the end.
Exciting stuff.

Agreed. I thought it was really well done. And I love the possibilities for Data's character. That was the highlight of the episode for me.

 

[TerryTrek]

You do realize that Seven didn't do anything in this episode. All she did was stand next to Jack to avoid being sucked out!

I love Seven, but unfortunately her character is fading to the background after a very strong start.

No, not satisfying.

Rewatch the episode. She defied Shaw and stood by Jack during the confrontation (as a commanding officer, she didn't want to leave him behind), and then Shaw rewarded her with the opportunity to blow up the Shrike.

They essentially positioned Jack and Seven as the action heroes here, with the agency to take down the villain.

I have to say this was probably the high point of Seven's character this season, really being placed in a leadership role and standing by her crew. A very different command approach than Shaw.

 

[Racefuel]

The Spiner acting off of Spiner was quite well done. I was impressed by the scenes and the emotions that came along with it. Well done.

Yep. I feel like Levar spoke for the audience, especially those of us who grew up with Data as our "friend", when he was imploring with Lore in E7 to open the door and telling Data (being suppressed by Lore at the time) about how when he died, he broke Geordi, and than his memory put him back together and how Data made him a better father, a better friend and such.

The emotional dynamic between Levar and Brent is remarkable and I think unmatched in Star Trek, going so far as to say it is better than the original Trio

 

[Mr Awe]

Too many SCENES CUT! The cloaked ship, Worf boarding the Shrike, Worf, Riker and Troi fighting in the corridor etc. Happened in the last episode as well. Was easy to see what was cut and it felt a little jarring to watch. Where is all that footage, hopefully released in its entirety in future.

Agreed. I didn't include those in my list but good points.

And if they filmed but left out, I don't get that because streaming. Unless they found those scenes were underwhelming for some reason.

 

[fireproof78]

Yep. I feel like Levar spoke for the audience, especially those of us who grew up with Data as our "friend", when he was imploring with Lore in E7 to open the door and telling Data (being suppressed by Lore at the time) about how when he died, he broke Geordi, and than his memory put him back together and how Data made him a better father, a better friend and such.

The emotional dynamic between Levar and Brent is remarkable and I think unmatched in Star Trek, going so far as to say it is better than the original Trio

Yes, that it moved me shows that TNG can be moving even for my stone hearted nature

 

[Racefuel]

Agreed. I didn't include those in my list but good points.

And if they filmed but left out, I don't get that because streaming. Unless they found those scenes were underwhelming for some reason.

More than likely the contracts and production agreement for Picard and shows like it (SNW, Discovery, etc) all have the shows intended to meet the 1 hour limit.

Keep in mind that we're getting basically 1 solid hour of programming, back in the day they had to allow for commercial breaks, which is why in reality each episode of TNG was only about 40-45 minutes long.

 

[Noname Given]

9/10

• The only thing stopping me from giving a 10/10 was the way the slaughter of the Titan crew wasn't touched on in the end... how many people died? Common, need some kind of a reaction. Yes, a Star Trek trope, but one that's always really bothered me.

You need to watch more TOS (and honestly, they did it a few times in TNG too.) As they often say - "It comes with the job."

I liked this one a lot, but unlike a lot of people here (of course I'm only on Page 5 of this thread as I type this); I actually liked last week's episode a bit more. Don't get me wrong, this WAS a good episode (and IMO it's nice that for once with Picard, I can discuss degrees of 'goodness' instead of what we were getting last season and INO the ending parts of Picard S1.)

For me, the way they ended Vadic AND the Shrike was anti-climatic. They make this powerful ship (more power then a Federation Dreadnaught); but when Vadic goes over to the Titan, what? She leaves her immensely powerful ship in under the watch of Changelings that can't defeat 2 Prisoners (one they beat up previously); an old Klingon and his protégée?

I mean hell, they didn't even try to beam all four back into a cell on the Shrike; and y9ou'r going to tell me Vadic wouldn't have an escape plan - like maybe the ability to remotely bam herself and her immediate team back to the Shrike via transporter remotely?

The Vadic and Shrike were ultimately a lot of 'show' with very little substance - so again, yes, that was disappointing.

I did like the whole Data/Lore thing, and yeah, that's the one thing that was pretty much telegraphed in the scenes between the two characters (with Spiner playing both characters very well); that Data, by surrendering his memories to Lore would prevail in the end; and that they would merge making Data now more 'fully human' then any of the parts/androids that were a part of him previously were one their own as different segments. He even seemed to have a touch of arthritis in his new 'golem' body.

And yeah loved the lines:

Data: "...This is your pissed off Positronic security system..." and "...Monologuing masses of protoplasm..."

And even though I don't mind cussing when/where appropriate, Vadic: "Fu*king solids!" fell flat for me. Not really needed IMO.

Given how the end of Vadic came off - I'm a bit concerned they may not be able to 'stick the landing' when wrapping all this up, but we'll see.

At least for me, the ride has been an entertaining/enjoyable one; and I really wish TNG itself had the characters written in this style; I would have actually liked that version of TNG more. (Guess that's why TOS is still my #1 Star Trek show. )

 

[Commander K]

It's hard to see any of the TNG crew being killed off now. We have effectively a 2 hour movie left before this ends...expecting an Undiscovered Country style ending

 

[Mr Awe]

Rewatch the episode. She defied Shaw and stood by Jack during the confrontation (as a commanding officer, she didn't want to leave him behind), and then Shaw rewarded her with the opportunity to blow up the Shrike.

They essentially positioned Jack and Seven as the action heroes here, with the agency to take down the villain.

I have to say this was probably the high point of Seven's character this season, really being placed in a leadership role and standing by her crew. A very different command approach than Shaw.

Like I said in my review, Seven made a grand gesture by remaining on the bridge to face the consequences.

But that didn't lead to anything. All she managed to do was avoid being sucked out by standing close to Jack. She had no agency. Jack did.

I did respect Shaw for saying that she should've blown them all out of the turbolift. She had agency at that point but didn't use it.

I think you need to rewatch the episode.

 

[fireproof78]

They make this powerful ship (more power then a Federation Dreadnaught); but when Vadic goes over to the Titan, what? She leaves her immensely powerful ship in under the watch of Changelings that can't defeat 2 Prisoners (one they beat up previously); an old Klingon and his protégée?

I mean, that's how you defeat something more powerful; do something unepexcted.

At least for me, the ride has been an entertaining/enjoyable one; and I really wish TNG itself had the characters written in this style; I would have actually liked that version of TNG more. (Guess that's why TOS is still my #1 Star Trek show. )

Good point, yes.

 

[TerryTrek]

Yep. I feel like Levar spoke for the audience, especially those of us who grew up with Data as our "friend", when he was imploring with Lore in E7 to open the door and telling Data (being suppressed by Lore at the time) about how when he died, he broke Geordi, and than his memory put him back together and how Data made him a better father, a better friend and such.

The emotional dynamic between Levar and Brent is remarkable and I think unmatched in Star Trek, going so far as to say it is better than the original Trio

It all just feels very earned. They did the work to earn those emotional beats.

It isn't hollow, like when certain other characters on other Nu Trek shows have tearful group hugs and discussions about their 'feels' in corridors.

I love that Levar is giving this his 100%. He hasn't really been acting on this level for a long, long time. He really sells it.

 

[fireproof78]

Emotions should never need to be earned.

 

[Mr Awe]

More than likely the contracts and production agreement for Picard and shows like it (SNW, Discovery, etc) all have the shows intended to meet the 1 hour limit.

Keep in mind that we're getting basically 1 solid hour of programming, back in the day they had to allow for commercial breaks, which is why in reality each episode of TNG was only about 40-45 minutes long.

Perhaps, but stupid. Not all streamers do that.

And episode 7 was I think 46 minutes or so. I checked while watching because it felt so short.

 

[Commander K]

It all just feels very earned. They did the work to earn those emotional beats.

It isn't hollow, like when certain other characters on other Nu Trek shows have tearful group hugs and discussions about their 'feels' in corridors.

I love that Levar is giving this his 100%. He hasn't really been acting on this level for a long, long time. He really sells it.

I feel like Levar is acting like Levar and less like Geordi...much the same as Stewart and Frakes.

 

[Mr Awe]

It's hard to see any of the TNG crew being killed off now. We have effectively a 2 hour movie left before this ends...expecting an Undiscovered Country style ending

I continue to think that JL dies. It seems thematically fitting.

 

[Commander K]

And noticed that Seven had time to top up her luscious lipgloss during the time she was captured by Vadic...perhaps popped into the ladies room for a top up?

 

[fireproof78]

It's hard to see any of the TNG crew being killed off now. We have effectively a 2 hour movie left before this ends...expecting an Undiscovered Country style ending

Agreed. I don't see anyone dying but nameless extras and villains.

 

[Captain Shaw]

I wish they would decide on what gender spot is.

 

[Racefuel]

I continue to think that JL dies. It seems thematically fitting.

Given SPS has indicated that despite the original plan for S3 to be the end that its not impossible there could be another season or such...I don't think so.

I think we'll get an epilogue or such that tells us what happens to "the family".