Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x08 - "Surrender"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
The Good: Geordi and Data
The Mid: Data and Lore. The writers basically ignoring Worf's development in DS9 to turn him into a joke machine.
The Bad: The Vadic plot and the "solution" to that problem.
The overall writing just doesn't make sense to me. The characters literally lucked into a solution and had a plan that made no sense. It was just so pointless. Turning Vadic into a bland villain with a stupid Nemesis/Insurrection style death and stupid one-liner was also pretty meh to me.
I dunno, so much of this show, and this episode in particular, is apologizing for the shittiness of season 1. Which, fine... but it just makes me wonder why this show needed to exist in the first place if they made two seasons of shit and then one season trying to retcon everything that happened.
My jokey answer to the final shot of the episode? It's Picard's dead mom all over again.
The Mid: Data and Lore. The writers basically ignoring Worf's development in DS9 to turn him into a joke machine.
The Bad: The Vadic plot and the "solution" to that problem.
The overall writing just doesn't make sense to me. The characters literally lucked into a solution and had a plan that made no sense. It was just so pointless. Turning Vadic into a bland villain with a stupid Nemesis/Insurrection style death and stupid one-liner was also pretty meh to me.
I dunno, so much of this show, and this episode in particular, is apologizing for the shittiness of season 1. Which, fine... but it just makes me wonder why this show needed to exist in the first place if they made two seasons of shit and then one season trying to retcon everything that happened.
My jokey answer to the final shot of the episode? It's Picard's dead mom all over again.
Either the showrunners felt opening the door to reveal a Borg would be so underwhelming and cause backlash this week that they left it yet again for next week, or the villain isn't someone that can be recognized in one dramatic ending shot and so they left his reveal and the accompanying lengthy exposition for next episode.
Oh my DAYS how good was this?! Marina Sirtis 10 out of fucking 10. Spiner 10/10. Episode 10/10.
- It'd probably have done some good to rip off the band-aid wrt to Jack early in this episode. The longer the writers try to stretch the reveal, the longer it makes him seem more a plot device and less a character. But then Troi wouldn't have anything to do.
- V. annoyed at these masked goombahs being able to hold Seven and her Borg enhancements back. Couldn't she toss one around just a little bit, as a treat, before getting threatened back into line?
- Ah, OK, this is how we're learning more about the bridge crew - exposition at gunpoint.
- Right, if we're at the point where the bad guys are flat out executing people, maybe time to try that whole strength in numbers thing, bridge?
- Ah, Raffi and Worf, you are truly the MVPs of this season, the competence porn I am so badly jonesing for right now.
- Goddamn, Levar, break my heart why don't you?
I love this man so much.
- I'm as fond of Spot as the next person, but if we're going to talk about Data's capacity to love, maybe bring up his kid. Lal doesn't even get a name check this time when Data's rattling off the Soong compilation.
- Yes, I know bringing knives to a disruptor fight is silly, but I'm still giving it a pass on rule of cool. Missing Elnor, though, because this so would have so been his thing. XD
- Have I mentioned that I'm just adoring Worf this season?
- That was a bit of an anti-climax, but at least she's gone. Farewell and good riddance, Vadic, you were a waste of a fine actress.
- ...OK so the character is named Data, but we're pretty much just getting Brent Spiner for the duration, then?
- Please not Pah Wraiths, please not Pah Wraiths, please not Pah Wraiths...
- And another cliff-hanger. Le sigh...
The Riker and Troi reconciliation I've got some longer form thoughts on, but I'm gonna sleep on those and see how I feel about it later.
I liked this one more than the last week's. Things moved along a bit, and now we're down to the last couple of episodes. The big issue is still the pacing, a lot of which is down to the writers being determined to drag out revealing the actual source of Jack's special abilities. I'm not sure all that much would have been lost if we'd gotten that sooner, and at this point I'd just like to get it out of the way, thanks.
- V. annoyed at these masked goombahs being able to hold Seven and her Borg enhancements back. Couldn't she toss one around just a little bit, as a treat, before getting threatened back into line?
- Ah, OK, this is how we're learning more about the bridge crew - exposition at gunpoint.
- Right, if we're at the point where the bad guys are flat out executing people, maybe time to try that whole strength in numbers thing, bridge?
- Ah, Raffi and Worf, you are truly the MVPs of this season, the competence porn I am so badly jonesing for right now.
- Goddamn, Levar, break my heart why don't you?
I love this man so much.- I'm as fond of Spot as the next person, but if we're going to talk about Data's capacity to love, maybe bring up his kid. Lal doesn't even get a name check this time when Data's rattling off the Soong compilation.
- Yes, I know bringing knives to a disruptor fight is silly, but I'm still giving it a pass on rule of cool. Missing Elnor, though, because this so would have so been his thing. XD
- Have I mentioned that I'm just adoring Worf this season?
- That was a bit of an anti-climax, but at least she's gone. Farewell and good riddance, Vadic, you were a waste of a fine actress.
- ...OK so the character is named Data, but we're pretty much just getting Brent Spiner for the duration, then?
- Please not Pah Wraiths, please not Pah Wraiths, please not Pah Wraiths...
- And another cliff-hanger. Le sigh...
The Riker and Troi reconciliation I've got some longer form thoughts on, but I'm gonna sleep on those and see how I feel about it later.
I liked this one more than the last week's. Things moved along a bit, and now we're down to the last couple of episodes. The big issue is still the pacing, a lot of which is down to the writers being determined to drag out revealing the actual source of Jack's special abilities. I'm not sure all that much would have been lost if we'd gotten that sooner, and at this point I'd just like to get it out of the way, thanks.
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Oh god my heart
Better than last week! I really liked this one. Still not sure about Jack. I hope it's the Pah Wraiths, but fear it's the Borg (once again). That would be a let down.
It's either Borg, Pah Wraiths, or Iconian.
Yep, it’s gone. The Changlings yeeted the necessary parts of his brain and that was it.
Won't get to see it until tomorrow but reading through some of the posts and noted comments on Vadic being spaced.
Didn't Laas first make his presence known in the form of a ship which disappeared from scans, heavily implying he was the ship and changed forms? That means changelings can A) survive space and B) travel at warp if they need to. The question is did the genetic tampering nix those abilities for Vadic and co? Of course I may be misremembering the episode...
Didn't Laas first make his presence known in the form of a ship which disappeared from scans, heavily implying he was the ship and changed forms? That means changelings can A) survive space and B) travel at warp if they need to. The question is did the genetic tampering nix those abilities for Vadic and co? Of course I may be misremembering the episode...
Then we can see Sisko return and kick his ass once again!What are the odds that an 80 year old Marc Alaimo could be talked into and would be willing to play Gul Dukat one last time as the harbinger of the Pah-Wraiths in PICARD Season 3...
Any resemblance at all?
Bloody hell. So much to absorb.
The good: The TNG gang together in the same room again. Cry fanwank all you like; that was great to see.
Beverly isn't a changeling. Neither is Jack. Cracked up laughing at the bit where Picard proved he wasn't a changeling to Geordi.
The Troi / Riker scenes were brilliant ("yintaru" made me genuinely LOL). Parts of that must have been difficult for Sirtis, given her real-life loss a few years ago, but she nailed it. She and Frakes play off each other superbly. And the scene with Worf was priceless.
The Data / Lore bits were excellent. Really hope that's the end of all that, though. I readily admit the scene near the end with Geordi made me tear up. On the other hand, "monologuing protoplasms" was hysterical.
Seven / Ryan... Just superb.
Vadic is off the scene. Not unhappy about that, but Plummer was quite remarkable in this episode.
There are other bits I really liked but that will do for now.
The bad: I didn't think my opinion of Shaw could go much lower, but it has.
We still don't know what the hell Jack is. It's getting a bit ridiculous at this point. Hopefully next week...???
TL, DR: I liked it. A lot. Now to see what everyone else thought.
The good: The TNG gang together in the same room again. Cry fanwank all you like; that was great to see.
Beverly isn't a changeling. Neither is Jack. Cracked up laughing at the bit where Picard proved he wasn't a changeling to Geordi.
The Troi / Riker scenes were brilliant ("yintaru" made me genuinely LOL). Parts of that must have been difficult for Sirtis, given her real-life loss a few years ago, but she nailed it. She and Frakes play off each other superbly. And the scene with Worf was priceless.
The Data / Lore bits were excellent. Really hope that's the end of all that, though. I readily admit the scene near the end with Geordi made me tear up. On the other hand, "monologuing protoplasms" was hysterical.
Seven / Ryan... Just superb.
Vadic is off the scene. Not unhappy about that, but Plummer was quite remarkable in this episode.
There are other bits I really liked but that will do for now.
The bad: I didn't think my opinion of Shaw could go much lower, but it has.
We still don't know what the hell Jack is. It's getting a bit ridiculous at this point. Hopefully next week...???
TL, DR: I liked it. A lot. Now to see what everyone else thought.
I am very happy with where the character of Data is now and I suspect Spiner is also since he now has more breadth to play the character with. Granted Brent is 75 now and deserves to retire if he wants, the same with Data.
I’m extremely happy with how the TNG characters are wrapping up and I feel it’s an appropriate bookend to the road that started 36 years ago
I’m extremely happy with how the TNG characters are wrapping up and I feel it’s an appropriate bookend to the road that started 36 years ago
I knew Data was tricking Lore by giving him his memories. Lore was too arrogant and didn’t see it coming.
As for Jack seeing red and all that I don’t think it has anything to do with the Pah Wraiths. I think it’s just a nod to Matalas’ previous show 12 Monkeys and nothing more. I do think it has something to do with the Borg especially with Vadic’s comment to Seven about it fitting for her being witness. I wonder if it maybe it’s the originator of the Borg that has somehow been handed down through the ages and definitely from Picard being Jack’s father.
The Head doesn’t fit in with the Pah Wraiths. Why would they have this floaty head thing? They’re non corporeal beings.
As for Jack seeing red and all that I don’t think it has anything to do with the Pah Wraiths. I think it’s just a nod to Matalas’ previous show 12 Monkeys and nothing more. I do think it has something to do with the Borg especially with Vadic’s comment to Seven about it fitting for her being witness. I wonder if it maybe it’s the originator of the Borg that has somehow been handed down through the ages and definitely from Picard being Jack’s father.
The Head doesn’t fit in with the Pah Wraiths. Why would they have this floaty head thing? They’re non corporeal beings.
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