Quick Question on Revenge of the Sith

[Reverend]

That's not what the canon lore says.

And you just sit there and watch me not care a jot.

That movie was so deliberately vague and obtuse, anyone can make up what they want and it's equally valid. Also, you are aware that anyone can edit wookieepedia right? It's not in and of itself a valid interpretation of canon, even if one cared about such things.

 

[fireproof78]

But ultimately Anakin's redemption is in no way contingent upon Palpatine surviving or not surviving, it's about his relationship to the Force.

And the sooner the Chosen One nonsense was disposed of the better.

OS: "The galaxy rejoiced when he died at the Battle of Endor, but Sidious had cheated death and patiently plotted a return to power."

After watching the Clone Wars it is the most Palpatine thing to do.

 

[Tuskin38]

you are aware that anyone can edit wookieepedia right? It's not in and of itself a valid interpretation of canon, even if one cared about such things.

They have a strict source policy. And there's footnotes for everything there, that's what those numbers are. Most of that info comes from canon books.

anyone can make up what they want and it's equally valid.

No, they can't. Only what is officially published is valid.

 

[Reverend]

And the sooner the Chosen One nonsense was disposed of the better.

After watching the Clone Wars it is the most Palpatine thing to do.

The "chosen one" stuff still tracks. One thing about The Force people miss (and is made pretty clear on Mortis) is that just like nature; it's essentially amoral. It got Anakin to restore balance, one way or another. It was up to him to choose which path he took to get there, and he just chose the selfish, painful way, dragging everyone else along with him. The Force never really cared about him; it doesn't care about anything besides ensuring it stays in equilibrium and will always take the path of least resistance to get there.

Also from a story POV, one could see the Jedi blindly adhering to the prophecy as more evidence that they'd become hopelessly dogmatic, so it still serve a thematic purpose.
Indeed, Lucas may have tipped exactly that right from the jump. While Qui-Gon believed in the prophecy, had he survived he wouldn't have depended on it and just expected Anakin to get there on his own like Mace and even Yoda did. They lost touch with the moment; always focusing on the future, which just made it easier for the dark side to blind them. Qui-Gon would have been more aware and would have tried to guide him rather than goad him.

They have a strict source policy. And there's footnotes for everything there, that's what those numbers are. Most of that info comes from canon books.

Wookieepedia feels the need to have an article explain what breasts are. So you'll excuse me if I don't conflate terminal pedantry with academic authority, or even basic insight. At best, it's an often incomplete and unreliable indexing utility, edited by a constantly bickering series of bureaucratic fiefdoms. Useful for tracking down actual sources of information. Nothing more.

And if you want me to take YOUR opinions seriously; copy-pasting a wiki article is not the way to do it. That's like handing in a photocopy of the cliffnotes in lieu of a book report. Or linking to some youtuber rant as if that's in any way a valid argument. Regurgitated opinions do not interest me.
Show me you've digested and understood the source material under your own power, or save us both the wasted time and don't bother replying in future.

 

[fireproof78]

The "chosen one" stuff still tracks.

And? That makes little difference in my opinion on the clumsy insertion in the PT.

Qui-Gon would have been more aware and would have tried to guide him rather than goad him.

I do agree on this point.

 

[Reverend]

And? That makes little difference in my opinion on the clumsy insertion in the PT.

I disagree that it was clumsy at all. Indeed I literally just illustrated that it was woven into the subtext from the very start.
Slightly hammy and bluntly implemented on the surface level perhaps, but that's all part of the style of the piece.
Said surface level has always ALWAYS been a cheesy pastiche of adventure serials. The OT was no different in this regard.

You may not like it, and that's fine. But it's all still a conscious choice, not inept storytelling as evidenced by the solid underpinnings thoroughout.

 

[fireproof78]

You may not like it, and that's fine. But it's all still a conscious choice, not inept storytelling as evidenced by the solid underpinnings thoroughout.

Who said inept?

 

[Reverend]

Who said inept?

Is there another interpretation of the phrase "clumsy insertion" in this context? If it's on purpose, then the term doesn't apply.

 

[Set Harth]

And the sooner the Chosen One nonsense was disposed of the better.

You never know, Grogu could be the true Chosen One. The math works out...

 

[fireproof78]

Is there another interpretation of the phrase "clumsy insertion" in this context? If it's on purpose, then the term doesn't apply.

Clumsy can be on purpose, but as you note, "bluntly implemented" is the way it was handled. Doesn't mean I think it was inept. Another way to put it would be awkward or rough.

Nowhere am I implying "inept; no skill." There is skill; it's rough skill and I do not enjoy it. It is not something that is additive to the larger context of the world, nor do I think it meshes as well as intended by Lucas to the OT.

ETA: looking it up I see that inept has "clumsy" as a second definition, which doesn't quite fit my intent of the use of the term.

You never know, Grogu could be the true Chosen One. The math works out...

*sarcastic Hooray meme here*

 

[Reverend]

Clumsy can be on purpose

OK well, whatever dictionary you're using, I suggest you get a refund since that's literally the opposite of what that means.
If someone drops something by accident, that's clumsy. If they drop something on purpose, it's not. These are mutually exclusive concepts.
Words mean things.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

That's not what the canon lore says.

So was Palpatine screaming "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" all the way down the shaft until he exploded a clever ruse to trick Anakin and Luke into thinking he'd died?

 

[Ithekro]

The body was still screaming. The Sith left town for a place with less falling.

 

[Reverend]

The body was still screaming. The Sith left town for a place with less falling.

That's not how screaming works; it's a conscious effort, not a reflex. A scream like that means Sheev was experiencing shock and mortal terror. It wasn't a scream of outrage either. He was too scared to even feel angry about it.
Not the actions of someone confident for whom physical death is a mere setback.

 

[fireproof78]

OK well, whatever dictionary you're using, I suggest you get a refund since that's literally the opposite of what that means.
If someone drops something by accident, that's clumsy. If they drop something on purpose, it's not. These are mutually exclusive concepts.
Words mean things.

First definition I get was from Oxford Languages and says "done awkwardly."

 

[Tuskin38]

The TLJ Visual Dictionary says Anakin fulfilled the chosen one prophecy when he threw Palpatine down the hole, but that was written before TROS was written so...

Regurgitated opinions do not interest me.

I don't have the money to buy every single book out there, but I've seen the whole spirit transfer thing cited all over the place from people who have read the books.

It's canon fact that Palpatine's spirit was transferred to a new body.

 

[DigificWriter]

It's canon fact that Palpatine's spirit was transferred to a new body.

From TRoS itself as well as from the tie-in material.

The TLJ Visual Dictionary says Anakin fulfilled the chosen one prophecy when he threw Palpatine down the hole, but that was written before TROS was written so...

That has always been stated fact and has never changed. In fact, it's one of the few Lore Constants that the Star Wars IP actually has.

 

[Set Harth]

*sarcastic Hooray meme here*

 

[fireproof78]

Sure, why not?

 

[Reverend]

The TLJ Visual Dictionary says Anakin fulfilled the chosen one prophecy when he threw Palpatine down the hole, but that was written before TROS was written so...


I don't have the money to buy every single book out there, but I've seen the whole spirit transfer thing cited all over the place from people who have read the books.

It's canon fact that Palpatine's spirit was transferred to a new body.

Reference books are just fluff. Merchandise. By the admission of one of their authors; they don't actually matter to the story, regardless of what wookieepedia says. The only material that matters in this kind of discussion is narrative content.

And if that movie didn't want me deciding for myself how their shallow, lazy, poorly thought out plot fits into the larger universe in something vaguely approaching coherence, then it should have been less terrible at storytelling.

So no, I do not find your blind recital of some wiki editor's summation a compelling argument.