Spoilers Did Picard finally ''right the ship'' with Picard season 3?

[TerryTrek]

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Exactly! Move forward in the TNG/DS9/VGR time period. There are so many storylines that could be followed up now with greater budgets and serialization in live action. Yes, there are elements to enjoy with both PRODIGY and LOWER DECKS. But both are animated, and each suffer from structural limitations from their formats. PICARD is live action with many main characters returning. So it would have a much higher potential hype level.

Let's say PRODIGY was live action and targeted at a general audience... and had most of the VGR characters back. Much more potential hype.

Yup.

Lower Decks is also a 'comedy', or an attempt at one. And yes, I can see how that may not appeal to those fans who want Star Trek to be meaningful philosophical exploration and discourse.

I hope that's what Pic S3 will be. It's not there yet. However, we have a long way to go.

What will be interesting is to see how many will re-evaluate 3x01 after seeing the next batch of episodes. Apparently 3x01 makes a lot more sense in context and there's a lot more to pull from it once you see the rest of the season!

 

[DaveyNY]

When people say, "I don't like any Star Trek after 2005," I don't agree with them, but I can understand them.

When people say, "I don't like any Star Trek after 2005 except for Picard Season 3," all I have to say is: It's the same Star Trek it was before, they just threw in some more '80s and '90s stuff to make the pill easier to swallow! If you like PIC Season 3, there's no reason not to like DSC, SNW, or the rest of PIC other than stupid hangups. It's not that different from what else has come out recently.

So if you like PIC Season 3, great. Go back and look at the other stuff. This time with an open mind!

Heh ... It's almost like "memberries" actually are important to a lot of folks, even when they complain about them.

 

[Tuskin38]

Good job she's got a 'pump action' phaser rifle

The assault phaser in ST5/6 could be cocked as well. Even had removeable power pack resembling a pistol magazine.

Someone told me Worf also did it to do his rifle from First Contact, but I've yet to see any proof.

 

[James Cole]

Prodigy is aimed at an older teenage audience (they're not doing Paw Patrol).

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Watch Clone Wars. Kids shows can do some straight up dark shit.

I'm way too much of normie with Star Wars to watch one of their cartoons. PRODIGY also airs on Nickelodeon, where it has to fall under the ceiling of the TV-Y7 FV rating. Which I guess comes close to a modern rated PG movie, so there is some room.

TV-Y7

This program is designed for children age 7 and above.[11]
Designed for children age 7 and older. The FCC states that it "may be more appropriate for children who have acquired the developmental skills needed to distinguish between make-believe and reality".[11] The thematic elements portrayed in programs with this rating contain mild fantasy and comedic violence.

Programs where fantasy violence may be more intense or more combative.[11]
Programs given the "FV" content descriptor exhibit more 'fantasy violence'[11] and are generally more intense or combative than other programs rated TV-Y7.

I don't really agree with the premise that the ship needed righting. They certainly had room to improve in terms of structure and pacing which were an issue in previous seasons, but that didn't require the complete redirection of this season.

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I think the ship did need righting, for me, Picard has been terrible. But I don't see what's different about this episode so far - aside from the music, which is weird in this one. It's still dark in terms of the lighting, Crusher is now a badass killer, and Picard is disrespected by those in Starfleet, which is just weird. I thought this was one of the better episodes, but I gotta say that it felt like a fan-film.

The major recalibration already happened between seasons 1 and 2. The synth plotline benched, android Picard an elephant in the room concept they tried to run away from, the nihilism and disrespect to Picard turned down. Michael Chabon was sidelined then sent away to develop a Showtime show that's gone no where in three years. Terry Matalas was pulled off of a CBS primetime procedural mid season to try and help stabilize PICARD.

Seasons 1 and 2 are both bad, but for different reasons. I wouldn't be surprised that once season 3 has completed, season 2 might come across as a little better in hindsight.

It's literally not meant to be taken literal.

Others take canon far more seriously

Heh ... It's almost like "memberries" actually are important to a lot of folks, even when they complain about them.

"Memberberries" is a lot like the word "woke"... we get the general idea of the issue, but what it actually means in that case is open to emotionally charged interpretation.

 

[Tuskin38]

Others take canon far more seriously

The showrunner has said to take the events of the show as an exaggeration of real events.

 

[TerryTrek]

The showrunner has said to take the events of the show as an exaggeration of real events.

That's fair.

Considering Riker and other legacy characters behaving like 'over the top' parody versions of themselves on LD

Gives Frakes a chance to play himself.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm way too much of normie with Star Wars to watch one of their cartoons. PRODIGY also airs on Nickelodeon, where it has to fall under the ceiling of the TV-Y7 FV rating. Which I guess comes close to a modern rated PG movie, so there is some room.

There is plenty of room. Clone Wars had child murder in it, and multiple deaths, including a lightsaber through the chest by the protagonist.

Others take canon far more seriously

So? The production team states its an exaggeration of in world events. So, taking canon seriously is not the question. And treating canon as serious business is ridiculous on it's face because it is a fictional work which is full of contradictions or inconsistencies. For me, none is greater than the other. If one work is canon but inconsistent then I can handle inconsistencies in other works.

Lower Decks is also a 'comedy', or an attempt at one. And yes, I can see how that may not appeal to those fans who want Star Trek to be meaningful philosophical exploration and discourse.

How in the world did people get through TOS?

 

[James Cole]

The showrunner has said to take the events of the show as an exaggeration of real events.

That's how I'm able to enjoy watching say 2/3rd of the show.

And treating canon as serious business is ridiculous on it's face because it is a fictional work which is full of contradictions or inconsistencies. For me, none is greater than the other. If one work is canon but inconsistent then I can handle inconsistencies in other works.

Haha well this is the Star Trek franchise. Reference books. Nitpicking guides. Decades of debate over the Klingon forehead issue. Is the technology in ENT too advanced?

DISCOVERY really jumped the shark once it fell into the mindset that canon didn't matter... and the rest is history.

Meanwhile PICARD season 3 is apparently really, really in sync with pre-established canon. It certainly made Doug Drexler happy. And a certain YouTuber who saw the season in advance. For that alone I'm willing to tolerate the bad lighting...

 

[TerryTrek]

How in the world did people get through TOS?

They view it in the context of it's time.

Though 60s LSD may be required for Season 3.

 

[fireproof78]

DISCOVERY really jumped the shark once it fell into the mindset that canon didn't matter

No. It took a different perspective. It offered up a less than literal interpretation of past events, which is how really history works. So, I don't treat canon as strict literalism. I treat it as an interpretation of in universe events.

Haha well this is the Star Trek franchise.

And? You say that like I should regard this as important instead of being more than willing to explore the shows as presented, as art reflective of the day, rather than some divinely inspired work that is immutable.

They view it in the context of it's time.

Though 60s LSD may be required for Season 3.

Ah, so TNG era is regarded as deep philosophical treatise but TOS is just a product of it's time?

Whatever. The older I get the more I realize that the fan mindset will forever escape me.

 

[TerryTrek]

Meanwhile PICARD season 3 is apparently really, really in sync with pre-established canon. It certainly made Doug Drexler happy. And a certain YouTuber who saw the season in advance. For that alone I'm willing to tolerate the bad lighting...

The lighting will improve. Some pictures have leaked that show brighter lit sets, as the season progresses.

 

[James Cole]

No. It took a different perspective. It offered up a less than literal interpretation of past events, which is how really history works. So, I don't treat canon as strict literalism. I treat it as an interpretation of in universe events.

But we have audiovisual records of TOS. It's one thing to retcon dialog talking about something that could have an inaccurate narrator, but that is not the case here. Even JJ Abrams knew this was a bridge too far and set up an alt-universe to handle it.

And? You say that like I should regard this as important instead of being more than willing to explore the shows as presented, as art reflective of the day, rather than some divinely inspired work that is immutable.

Star Trek is a period piece in a shared interrelated universe. The only was TOS and DISCOVERY/SNW can equally be canon is if they are in a multiverse.

Luckily PICARD season 3 is righting the ship with canon... However, to be fair, as much as I disliked season 1, it only had like three canon violations. So I give credit where credit is due.

 

[fireproof78]

But we have audiovisual records of TOS

No. We have a dramatic recreation of Kirk's logs.

Star Trek is a period piece in a shared interrelated universe. The only was TOS and DISCOVERY/SNW can equally be canon is if they are in a multiverse.

Whatever helps you. I don't treat it as a period piece as it is meant to be a representation of our humanity and our future. Not some imagined humanity who evolved to become unfeeling people who don't mourn.

Luckily PICARD season 3 is righting the ship with canon... However, to be fair, as much as I disliked season 1, it only had like three canon violations. So I give credit where credit is due.

Which demonstrates that canon is not as important as people treat it. It is mutable as it should be in fiction.

 

[TerryTrek]

The only was TOS and DISCOVERY/SNW can equally be canon is if they are in a multiverse.

I think if the Terry/Drexler regime is given more power over this franchise after S3, that could happen.

Similar to James Gunn separating DC projects into 'DCU' and 'Elseworlds'

I love the idea, because it will allow Strange New Worlds to charge it's own course.

 

[Tuskin38]

I think if the Terry/Drexler regime

Regime? Also Drexler has no say on the story or writing, he's just an artist.

You are overplaying his involvement.

 

[James Cole]

No. We have a dramatic recreation of Kirk's logs.

But TNG, DS9, and ENT all have direct visuals of TOS stuff... Are they all dramatic recreations as well?

Which demonstrates that canon is not as important as people treat it. It is mutable as it should be in fiction.

Ok, the three canon violations:

• A Discoprise... well it doesn't say NCC-1701... so it could just be an unused refit design. We know what it is, but in universe there is plausible deniability that doesn't threaten the integrity of TOS
• Hugh says the Borg never assimilated Romulans before, as far as he knows. Why wouldn't he know about "The Neutral Zone" outposts etc?
• Romulans and androids. The Romulan cyberneticists mentioned in "The Defector". Why didn't Romulans freak the fuck out over Data whenever they encountered him? Well maybe the the Zhat Vash were too secretive and ineffective for their own good?

Nothing as bad as wiping out an entire series...

Whatever helps you. I don't treat it as a period piece as it is meant to be a representation of our humanity and our future. Not some imagined humanity who evolved to become unfeeling people who don't mourn.

It's a future that broke off in the 1960's then really has a tough next 100 years...

I think if the Terry/Drexler regime is given more power over this franchise after S3, that could happen.

Similar to James Gunn separating DC projects into 'DCU' and 'Elseworlds'

I love the idea, because it will allow Strange New Worlds to charge it's own course.

This, so much this! Berman Trek was very good with canon. Have Drexler and the Okudas involved in that PICARD spin off project!

 

[Tuskin38]

But TNG, DS9, and ENT all have direct visuals of TOS stuff.

And so does Discovery Season 2.

Ok, the three canon violations:

On top of the dozens in all the other pre-2009 TV series and movies? That's pretty good.

 

[James Cole]

And so does Discovery Season 2.

Ahhh, but that one isn't directly integrated into the episode. And, they even go out of their way to make the Talosians look around 25% different...

 

[Tuskin38]

And, they even go out of their way to make the Talosians look around 25% different...

For probably the same reason they made the Klingons look different in TMP.
There's nothing wrong with updating designs for modern times.

Changing the ship design doesn't alter canon anymore than recasting an actor.

 

[fireproof78]

But TNG, DS9, and ENT all have direct visuals of TOS stuff... Are they all dramatic recreations as well?

So does Discovery. But, if they are dramatic recreations in universe of Kirk's logs then of course I would expect the visuals. Same way I see imagines of Moses with a robe like Charlton Heston.

It's a future that broke off in the 1960's then really has a tough next 100 years...

Except, whenever they go to the past it is very closely related to our past. 80s is our 80s. 90s is our 90s.

Nothing as bad as wiping out an entire series...

A little dramatic there?

I've studied enough history to know that details are not 100% accurate. So, I don't expect the same in my Trek.