Ever been thrown out of a story by a reference?

[Steve Roby]

The last thing an author should be doing is reminding the reader that he's reading a novel.

I don't know about that. I've written a story where it's impossible not to be conscious that you are reading a story, and that was a deliberate choice on my part. Some stories function best artistically if they keep their audience off-balance and at some distance.

Assuming you're talking about "Make-Believe"... once it's clear what's going on in your story, it doesn't distance the reader. The story wouldn't have the effect it does otherwise. It just so happens that we're then drawn into a different kind of story than we originally expected.

As for Trent's remark about Immortal Coil: I don't see that as the same phenomenon. The references in that book were in-universe and appropriate, if arguably underexplained for the benefit of people who haven't seen TOS. The main out-of-universe reference was one that I would guess escaped more than 90% of the book's readers (Vaslovik from The Questor Tapes).

 

[Garth Rockett]

Since I brought up the computer/Lwaxana bit in Before Dishonor, I suppose I should mention in fairness to PAD that using the names of some Marvel Comics editors as scientists at the beginning of the story (Brevoort, Sumerak and Wacker) didn't bother me. I don't mind a subtle in-joke, but it does pull me out of the story when I read one as obvious (and to me, unamusing) as pointing out the same actor played two different roles.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

I don't mind a subtle in-joke, but it does pull me out of the story when I read one as obvious (and to me, unamusing) as pointing out the same actor played two different roles.

Oh, I agree. An in-joke isn't bad in and of itself. Its badly written in-jokes that are the problem, in my opinion.

 

[Mistral]

When I'm reading fiction I want to immerse myself in the universe the author is creating. Any of these "cutesy" in-jokes/references are just a childish author playing around. And if the authors can't take their story seriously-how are the readers s'posed to?

 

[Dayton Ward]

^ Childish? Not taking the story seriously? Let's not go overboard here, okay?

 

[Mistral]

^ Childish? Not taking the story seriously? Let's not go overboard here, okay?

Sorry, but it does tend to be a bit too "cutesy" for my own tastes-if the book sells, though(and I bought some of the ones referenced AND enjoyed them) then who am I to criticize? Heck, I can barely spell, little less write and sell a book.

 

[Sci]

I don't see that "being thrown out of a story" is a bad thing.

I do. The last thing an author should be doing is reminding the reader that he's reading a novel.

Do yourself a favor. Don't ever go to see a Bertolt Brecht play.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I was thrown out of "Andor: Paradigm" by the mention of Therin Park, but that was exactly the reaction Heather Jarman was hoping for.

 

[JD]

When ENT was on, the books tried to have an ENT reference to set the newcomer into the Trek past. Luckily ENT's not on anymore!

What does Enterprise not being on anymore have to do with references to it? I've still seen plenty of them since it went off the air. Besides, it is just as much a part of the Trekverse as the other series, wether it was as popular as they were or not.

 

[JoeZhang]

I tend to get bothered more by the small universe stuff when in-gags.

Picard hailed a taxi - well blow me, it was being driven by Spock!

 

[donners22]

I was thrown by a few not-so-subtle jabs at the Enterprise writers in The Good That Men Do. Deserved to some degree, perhaps, but unnecessary and very clumsy IMO.

 

[KRAD]

I was thrown out of "Andor: Paradigm" by the mention of Therin Park, but that was exactly the reaction Heather Jarman was hoping for.

Ah, Therin Park. May we never forget.................

 

[Therin of Andor]

Ah, Therin Park. May we never forget.................

Hope not.

 

[Aaron McGuire]

Ah, Therin Park. May we never forget.................

Hope not.

And lest we forget crewman Shantherin th'Clane in Ex Machina.

Aaron McGuire

 

[Turtletrekker]

When I'm reading fiction I want to immerse myself in the universe the author is creating. Any of these "cutesy" in-jokes/references are just a childish author playing around. And if the authors can't take their story seriously-how are the readers s'posed to?

There's taking things seriously, and then there is taking things too seriously. That applies to authors and readers both.

And even the shows have made in-jokes. Like Kira blaming her pregnancy on Bashir, for example.

 

[RoJoHen]

The thing with Dr. Chapel/Lwaxana/Computer voice are cool in Peter David's NF series because he at least keeps the joke going throughout the whole thing. He adds a level of mystery where they could be the same person, but maybe it's just all a big coincidence. And honestly, you don't ever expect a real explanation.

But yeah, as much as I wanted to enjoy the book "Immortal Coil," I just couldn't because it required way too much in-universe knowledge of every damn android/AI that had ever been in Trek. And as someone not very familiar with TOS, it was difficult because I was really expecting a TNG story.

 

[Therin of Andor]

And lest we forget crewman Shantherin th'Clane in Ex Machina.

Thanks Aaron. Frankly, I wasn't game to mention him.

 

[Therin of Andor]

But yeah, as much as I wanted to enjoy the book "Immortal Coil," I just couldn't because it required way too much in-universe knowledge of every damn android/AI that had ever been in Trek. And as someone not very familiar with TOS, it was difficult because I was really expecting a TNG story.

See, this I don't understand. What bits required TOS knowledge to understand the Data story being told?

And it was a TNG story. A whodunnit, squarely based in the TNG universe, looping in every significant Data/AI storyline from TNG, but with a few TOS cameos and references thrown in.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

The thing with Dr. Chapel/Lwaxana/Computer voice are cool in Peter David's NF series because he at least keeps the joke going throughout the whole thing.

To be honest the thought if it being turned into a running gag doesn't sound the least bit appealing to me.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

The one PAD running gag that I thought was over-the-top was Ensign Phaytus in Cold Wars. Because I wasn't "reading" it right to find it funny. :/