Give it a rest.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x09 - "All Those Who Wander"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I didn't know Pike was so knowledgeable about 20th century Earth sayings, vehicles, and "Dad" jokes. 
I didn't mind, of course, but it made me wonder (Orville style) how much 20th century slang and pop culture stayed relevent in an era without station wagons, cars, road trips...... but it was great, and charming, and I loved it anyways.
I didn't mind, of course, but it made me wonder (Orville style) how much 20th century slang and pop culture stayed relevent in an era without station wagons, cars, road trips...... but it was great, and charming, and I loved it anyways.
No. It makes complete, internally consistent logical sense, and solves 95% of "canon" issues. I will not.
It doesn't, several people including myself have pointed this out.
No, it really doesn't. And I'd change things about how the SNW ship looks in a heartbeat.
The "ENT happened in a different timeline from TOS and TNG" argument is just not tenable anymore. It really wasn't tenable 20 years ago.
The "ENT happened in a different timeline from TOS and TNG" argument is just not tenable anymore. It really wasn't tenable 20 years ago.
Paris had to learn it from someone.I didn't know Pike was so knowledgeable about 20th century Earth sayings, vehicles, and "Dad" jokes.
How so? It is the next production after "FC" and incorporates elements from the movie, including the Borg Drone, and incorporates an entire storyline in which the ship is saved from destruction to be repurposed, both of which would cause huge changes to the timeline and which would have had quite an effect on technology. The next show in production order, has a vastly different 23rd century, but is in line with a lot of ENT canon. You can see a direct through-line from FC->ENT->DSC->SNW. It is obviously a rewritten timeline, with broad strokes remaining the same, but a lot of small details being different. I have posted this video a number of times in terms of pointing out dozens of inconsistencies from the original TOS/TNG "history" and the post ENT "history" but I doubt anyone has even watched it, just discarded the ideas. Found a couple more while searching.
Any idea that is internally consistent and allows the shows to be watched in Production Order while getting rid of most things one could complain about is a no brainer to me.
I don't see any evidence that the Borg wouldn't have a different reason to be coming for a different reason in the original timeline, OR thats why Q had to get involved to begin with, to begin the loop.
I don' believe in predestination paradoxes. There was always an original version of reality, before meddling, whether from inside (Guardian) or outside (Q) the timeline, that we may never have seen or get to understand, that caused whatver loop or rewrite to happen.
Because it's not the 1960s anymore, not because some made up fan theory about alternate timelines. And the Borg episode of Enterprise is the reason the Borg are in the Beta Quadrant in TNG.
Also really, one of those thumbnails has Daniels photoshopped into Hitler, I'm not watching any of those.
Because the creators have said otherwise.
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The events of ENT - except for those still classified deep within Starfleet files - would have been available to James T. Kirk as a small child learning about the history of human space exploration. The NX-01 was always in Kirk's history books as well as Pike's, Picard's, Sisko's and Janeway's. And as truly, deeply bad and disappointing as the ENT series finale is the episode confirms that the NX-01's missions were part of the TNG Enterprise's holodeck program database and looked like what we saw in that series when Season 7 TNG characters played them in the 1701-D holodeck.
It's the same timeline, producers' aesthetic and creative choices aside.
It's the same timeline, producers' aesthetic and creative choices aside.
How is that all not assumption? We never saw Kirk reference anything of the like. Until the Post - FC butterflies, the NX was destroyed early in its mission, and only was saved because of the TCW - which most likely would not have existed if there had not been so much interference during an integral time period during the events of FC.
ENT's finale takes place after the FC rewrite, so any events seen there are NOT neccesarily the same as in the TNG series proper, the same for any Voyager episodes released after FC. All that tail-end proves is that aesthetics had been nudged back onto the "proper flow of time" by the time that the 24th century occurs, and that it took 200 years of corrections to rejoin that path.
The TOS Kirk would have had an absolutely different narrative of technology, exploration and galactic interactions, then the one we saw in the SNW finale. The entire 23rd century has been rewritten, broad strokes only apply. There are soooo many blatant references from TOS and TNG that have been directly contradicted, and ALL of those contradictions occur after the timeline rewrite from our perspective. I don't know why there is so much blow-back against something that, as i keep saying, is logically and internally consistant, matches what we saw on screen (including all subsequent shows in Production Order) and solves all of the major issues-to-complain-about and visual differences. This is *easy* by headcanon standards. Occam's Razor and all.
By those definitions all our opinions are assumptions, including your theory. 
By those definitions all our opinions are assumptions, including your theory.
Yup. EQUALLY so, but I am constantly told how wrong I am.
But with mine, you don't have to squint and try to explain giant differences, and its based on things we HAVE seen on screen, not "NX was in TOS Kirk's textbooks!" which we have no idea about at all. We know from Relics and Trials that the TOS Enterprise DID look the way it did. A subsequent butterfly-filled timeline rewrite, which we basically DID see on screen twice (borg future, reverting to "regular" (but imo altered) future) that can explain it all AND launches a never-before-seen time war makes so much logical and narrative sense its not even funny. The entire time-war would have popped into existence the second FC's shenanigans happened, would have all occured in the blink of an eye; their success would ensure the 24th we recognize, but takes dozens if not hundreds of nudges during the 22nd and 23rd to ensure things ended up where they are. Its a great storyline, it fixes the biggest bits of nonsense from ENT, explains all of the small background tech details that are ignored, like replicators, or lack of good subspace communications, or WHEN high end warp was even developed (right before TOS originally) or primitive medical care, that TOS and TNG referenced constantly.
I wish people would give those videos a fair shot in explaining all of the many small contradictions that add to my support of this theory.
I mean, if the "FC changed the timeline" theory works for you then knock yourself out, but I don't see why FC is any more likely to have changed the timeline than, say, McCoy leaving his phaser in 1930s New York in "The City on the Edge of Forever," or the Klingon bird-of-prey decloaking above whalers and beaming George and Gracie aboard in TVH, or Picard and Company traveling to the 1890s and meeting Mark Twain in "Time's Arrow, Parts I & II," or Quark, Rom, and Nog becoming the Roswell aliens in 1947 in "Little Green Men," or Sisko replacing Gabriel Bell in 2024 in "Past Tense, Parts I & II," or the starship Voyager flying over the 1996 Los Angeles Basin in "Future's End, Parts I & II," or....
photoshopping Daniels to look like hitler is a red flag (and Major Grin's channel in general)
Degrees of change. I would think small butterflies occurred at ALL of those events, to be honest. But the whalers? Unless they had some sort of hard proof, they would just be a typical UFO sighting. If the bum didn't have much effect on the world around him, then it didn't change anything. A direct interaction with THE creator of warp drive and every event that stems from that, including the name "Enterprise" and the abandoning of insanely advanced technology on 21st century earth would create much more of a problem. Honestly, some of the TOS technology may have been advanced before First Contact, from the computer boon of the 90s that Voyager dealt with. Lots of reasons that the TOS timeline has been replaced, FC being the major but not only one, but most likely the change that caused the TCW. The DS9 stories inherently aren't changing the timeline, because they are stepping into the shoes of what came before with the explicit purpose of not changing anything.
It is my opinion that the TCW was about aligning history to end up in the same/"right" place by the 24th century and ensure a similar-but-not-identical founding of the Federation. Archer would not have been the original President, nor would the first warp 5 ship have been called Enterprise - nor would it have survived. I'm guessing this tug-of-war would have occurred because a Federation Time Ship was protected when all the "FC" stuff happened and immediately went into action. The "other side" of the time war, most likely, would have been a faction who's success existed in the future with no Federation that existed in the split secconds at the end of FC, where the borg had been vanquished but the (unseen TCW story) had not yet saved teh Federation, but which would be instantaneous from a 4D perspective for the E-E to return home and "think" they were in the right place. Yes, this last part is all fanon, but the first half and my main thesis, IMO, is not. And I would love to see the missing, unseen chapter belonging to that FC/ENT era that I keep referring to.
Some of those are multiple cycles or layers in, many timeline rewrites later, so its hard to speculate on some of them.
poor taste does not remove the excellent comparisons between the original timeline and the post FC/ENT/Dsc timeline.
dislike for one small aspect keeps anyone from actually paying attention to the *extremely* well put together videos of dichotomy.
And one of the videos is from Treksplaining not major grin.
Disliking the messenger does not change the many examples of inconsistancies.
What about the inconsistencies in TOS?
Or TAS. TNG. DS9. VOY.
TAS had early holodeck technology and was set at the same time as TOS. It was even produced in the 1970s. Yet none of the first six Trek movies set between TAS and TNG depict Starfleet with rooms that can project realistic holograms. But DSC shows crude training holograms similar to 24th century holodecks.
Does this mean DSC and TAS are in a separate timeline from TOS and the first six films?
TAS had early holodeck technology and was set at the same time as TOS. It was even produced in the 1970s. Yet none of the first six Trek movies set between TAS and TNG depict Starfleet with rooms that can project realistic holograms. But DSC shows crude training holograms similar to 24th century holodecks.
Does this mean DSC and TAS are in a separate timeline from TOS and the first six films?
Well, we DID have 3 time travel episodes during TOS proper. Early season weirdness could have been butterflies from "Tomorrow is Yesterday" or even "City," plus it seems like StarFleet was rather lax with using time travel for research at one point in time (Assignment: Earth.) But most of those inconsistencies I always thouht were just verbage; Vulcan and Vulcanian both being used at the time, UESPA and Star Fleet being euphemistic names for the same thing, different slang and lingo being used at various points.
One of the biggest things I would say changed between TOS and the later timeline rewrite was how quickly warp was developed. In the new 23rd, it wouldn't surprise me to find out some of the lost colonies and ships from TOS had been found much earlier with the faster travel times. early TOS implied that all of these advancements were recent, and TNG did nothing to dispell that, painting the 22nd as a pretty archaic time. I think it took a lot longer to start advancing after WW3 and the Phoenix launch during TOS with no butterflies, then it did the second time around.
No; all of that is consistent. We have no proof that the TAS holograms were tangible, anyways, which was the big step forward for TNG IMO; not the ability to create wind or snow or change the temperature, or to have a nice looking screensaver in the background..... but the later AI-perfect/completely tangible holograms of TNG which are the perfection of the technology.
With tech being introduced early, though, there is no reason for DSC not to have a more advanced hologram generator than TAS, but not necessarily so. We don't know which areas the borg tech affected the most.