They sure do, the question is more if Gwyn would use that shuttle all the way to Solum, or if it was a bigger and much faster ship we saw leave. Or alternatively, the shuttle making an in-system warp to Utopia Planitia at Mars to rendez-vous with a repaired Dauntless or something like that. If the latter option, better get out of there fast before all hell breaks loose.
Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 1x20 - "Supernova, Part 2"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
No, it doesn't.
And it doesn't say CBS had to negotiate with Rademaker to use the ship.
The first quote said that Cryptic had to negotiate for rights to use the ship. Realistically that negotiation was with CBS/Paramount because they owned the rights.
The second said that there were legal hurdles that had to be jumped by CBS and Rademaker for Cryptic to use the ship.
Now, I'm going to explain to you exactly how these things work. CBS/Paramount own the rights to the Vesta, they paid Rademaker to make the design for it, Rademaker get's X amount of money for his design and then for a number of years Y amount of money when it's used in a thing.
The only legal hurdles involving Rademaker would have been figuring out how much CBS/Paramount were required to pay him for using the design in Star Trek Online. Which they very likely tried to screw him over on, because it's what always happens.
Yes, but their Warp speeds and range are frequrently touted as 'limited'.
Type IV shuttle in VOY is limited to Warp 4. Sure, there was a shuttle Tom Paris used to break the TW barrier, however, I don't think this would be standard practice - or, SF could simply use a same technique to reach incredibly high Warp speeds without breaking the Threshold - the thing is that maintaining those speeds would probably be extremely difficult because the power requirements at higher Warp increments past 9.9 would go well beyond of what a shuttle could sustain for a significant enough portion of a time (power consumption and speed usually DOUBLE past 9.9 with every increment),.
I always assumed that at Warp 10 though, the bussard collectors were able to pick up the energy from subspace and keep the shuttle powered and that once you cross the Threshold, the energy needed to sustain it was lower compared to what was needed to actually break through the Threshold (however strange that may be).
So, I don't think a shuttle would have been a viable option to transport Gwyn all the way to Solum (which is in the Delta Quadrant).
It would need to cross thousands of lightyears to get there.
Earth is 25 800 Lys from the galactic centre.
Since its been established that Solum is 'somewhere in the Delta Quadrant', even if it was near the border of Beta and Delta, and given the fact the Vau'N'A'Kat still hadn't made FC, it would imply they might be situated in a remote sector of the DQ that no one besides the UFP had any plans on visiting, and the distance in question would still be greater than 25 800 ly's.
So, if a ship were to use Warp 9.9 to get there, it would reach solum in over a year. Add 9.91 to the mix (which would be double the speed), and you cut the journey to around 6 to 8 months perhaps - and I don't know if SF is able to maintain 9.92 on most ships just yet).
Or, Solum is located in a REMOTE sector of the DQ that no one besides SF deemed necessarily worthy to explore and Solum was fairly isolated from other Warp capable species.
VOY was heading in a relative line path back to the AQ... and its deviations from its original course may have been by dozen LY's at most... so, its likely Solum is a fair distance away from Earth.
Earth is 25 800 Ly's from the galactic centre... since Solum is somewhere in the DQ, it could easily be a larger distance (than what I just said) away - and for that, you either need Slipstream, or a ship capable of reaching and sustaining Warp 9.91 that would get there in about 7-8 months (or 3.5-4 months if its capable of sustaining 9.92 - which is certainly possible, since the Prometheus class was already capable of sustaining Warp 9.9 effortlessly in S4 of VOY. Given that its been 8 years since then by the time PRO S1 finished, its possible SF managed to increase 9.9 stable cruise to 9.91 or 9.92.
Yeah... its likely SF would in that case use a shuttle with some kind of stealth system (perhaps the one which Endgame admiral Janeway brought back and SF deemed is 'premissible' to use on a covert mission when necessary) to beam Gwyn down to Solum in the city she saw in the holo (which seems like the most likely place to find her younger father).
Ascencia mentioned the Diviner was similar in age to her (when FC occurred)... since then 'years and decades' passed (during which time a civil war erupted).
Given that Chakotay was stuck 52 years into the future (and been with the Vau'N'A'Kat for 72 days), the Diviner would have been approximately 70 odd years old by the time Chakotay launched the Protostar back into the past.
70 years old and looking particularly well (in Vindicators memories) at that age makes sense... then add another 17 to over 20 odd years to that while he was searching for the Protostar in the past and he'd be in his 90 - ies by the time PRO began.
If he was really that age when PRO started, then it would make sense he needed a bio fluid to sustain him most of the time and developed a limp (possibly due to old age) - and why he made Gwyndala in the first place (because he knew he might not be able to live for much longer and he wanted (desperately) to complete his mission.
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I didn’t see any difference
Rademaker retains the design rights to the ship.
The folks who put together the Ships of the Line Calendar had to pay him as well.
(his original design was adapted to look more like a Star Fleet ship)
He had already created the basic design when the opportunity came up to do the book cover.
He didn't sell the rights to it to CBS, he had a lawyer contract with CBS for them to use it.
STO went through CBS and Rademaker to put it in the game, that's why it was such a headache for STO to get it.
(otherwise the Dev's would have just worked with CBS)
As said before, it is also why the design can't be used for anything else.
CBS/Paramount doesn't have final say in its use.
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My point was that they are not beholden to use any STO designs because there is no need to do that from a budgetary standpoint. And being 'cheaper than designing a ship from scratch' doesn't really apply either, since PRO doesn't seem to have a problem with designing new ships.
That's still not what I meant. Just because they had a Centaur model didn't mean they actually had to use it. The Sovereigns, Defiants and Akiras made sense because they are contemporary to that time period. I'm sure they could have had access to Sabers, Steamrunners, Norways, Novas, Prometheuses, etc., but for some reason chose the Centaur instead of all those.
When VOY first premiered, I thought Chakotay was a great character, and would be the one to break-out, because his spiritual approach to things was a direct contrast to the usual technological aspects of Star Trek. And then instead they decided to both go overboard on the technobabble while at the same time completely eliminating Chakotay's spirituality aspect to the point that he became nothing more than a cardboard officer would could have been played by anybody.
Do you know what his original design looked like?
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This is his second iteration of the design, that ended up being used in the 2009 SotL Calendar.
I had line drawings of the original on one of my hard drives, but that was two computers ago and I can't find it now.
It was very similar, but didn't have the nacelles on pylons and they were much smaller.
(more like engines)
There was a large thread in the STO Forums from back when it was announced the ship was to be added to the game in which he discussed its creation.
I believe that it may have all been lost when Cryptic changed over to ARC.
(I know a lot of my posts disappeared when They changed)
I had line drawings of the original on one of my hard drives, but that was two computers ago and I can't find it now.
It was very similar, but didn't have the nacelles on pylons and they were much smaller.
(more like engines)
There was a large thread in the STO Forums from back when it was announced the ship was to be added to the game in which he discussed its creation.
I believe that it may have all been lost when Cryptic changed over to ARC.
(I know a lot of my posts disappeared when They changed)
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This is his second iteration of the design, that ended up being used in the 2009 SotL Calendar.
I had line drawings of the original on one of my hard drives, but that was two computers ago and I can't find it now.
It was very similar, but didn't have the nacelles on pylons and they were much smaller.
(more like engines)
There was a large thread in the STO Forums from back when it was announced the ship was to be added to the game in which he discussed its creation.
I believe that it may have all been lost when Cryptic changed over to ARC.
(I know a lot of my posts disappeared when They changed)
Ok, you made it sound as if the Vesta class originally did not look like a Starfleet vessel. This ship from the calendar was a different class, wasn’t it? Or am I misremembering?
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I beg to differ: reusing preexisting designs and assets is key to saving money, and budget is king on TV. This is how we got the copypaste fleet on Picard season 1, STO ships in season 2 and 23th century ships in Children of Mars.
No? How many new ships did they came up with, three?
possibly. But designing new vessels again implies spending time and money. And fans inevitably complain about them, so why do it for non-hero ships?
Why were there so many Centaurs in that fleet anyway? I was under the impression the Centaur, like all the other ships in the "Frankenstein Fleet" of Dominion War kitbashes were supposed to all be one-offs, simply melding parts of various incomplete ships together because they needed new ships right now and didn't want to wait the apparently longer length of time it would take to actually complete those ships. But now there's an entire Centaur class with multiple ships out there.
Does that mean the other Frankensteins were also part of different classes? Is there a Raging Queen class, an Elkins class, or even a Yeager class? I'll admit, given how well the Yeager in particular has gone over in fandom, I am amused at the thought of fandom's reaction to seeing multiple ships of that design show up.
Does that mean the other Frankensteins were also part of different classes? Is there a Raging Queen class, an Elkins class, or even a Yeager class? I'll admit, given how well the Yeager in particular has gone over in fandom, I am amused at the thought of fandom's reaction to seeing multiple ships of that design show up.
He called it the USS SPIRIT.
Why were there so many Centaurs in that fleet anyway? I was under the impression the Centaur, like all the other ships in the "Frankenstein Fleet" of Dominion War kitbashes were supposed to all be one-offs, simply melding parts of various incomplete ships together because they needed new ships right now and didn't want to wait the apparently longer length of time it would take to actually complete those ships. But now there's an entire Centaur class with multiple ships out there.
Does that mean the other Frankensteins were also part of different classes? Is there a Raging Queen class, an Elkins class, or even a Yeager class? I'll admit, given how well the Yeager in particular has gone over in fandom, I am amused at the thought of fandom's reaction to seeing multiple ships of that design show up.
The CENTAUR was considered a separate class in Fandom all the way back to the old FASA game days in the 80's.
It just wasn't part of the official canon till now.
Well no, that had to do with time constraints, not budget. They didn't have time to do multiple designs.
According to Mark via the Eaglemoss booklet for the Vesta, he saw people on a forum somewhere (maybe here?) using the Spirit as a stand in for an actual design for the Vesta, which inspired him to call up PocketBooks and ask if they'd like him to design an actual Vesta class.
as I said above, in most cases time and budget are the same thing in a TV production.
There were no preexisting assets for PRO. Everything they used, whether it was a new design or an old one, had to be either created from scratch or converted from some other format. There wasn't some leftover Centaur model lying around from a previous animated CGI series that they could just take and film.
USS Protostar
USS Dauntless
The REVs
The Protostar jeep (granted not a ship but still a new Starfleet vehicle)
Protostar shuttle
Kobayashi Maru
random alien ships at the trasportation hub
Kazon ship
Voyager-A shuttles
Starfleet Academy flyers
Why were there so many Centaurs in that fleet anyway? I was under the impression the Centaur, like all the other ships in the "Frankenstein Fleet" of Dominion War kitbashes were supposed to all be one-offs, simply melding parts of various incomplete ships together because they needed new ships right now and didn't want to wait the apparently longer length of time it would take to actually complete those ships. But now there's an entire Centaur class with multiple ships out there.
Does that mean the other Frankensteins were also part of different classes? Is there a Raging Queen class, an Elkins class, or even a Yeager class? I'll admit, given how well the Yeager in particular has gone over in fandom, I am amused at the thought of fandom's reaction to seeing multiple ships of that design show up.
Here's the story about that: When Rick Sternbach wrote the DS9 Tech Manual, diagrams of six of the kitbashes built for "A Time to Stand" were included in the back of the book. Sternbach is noted for his dislike of kitbashing in general and chose to explain these ships away as being hastily built from parts of other random ships for the war effort (essentially giving an in-universe reason for the kitbashing as opposed to declaring them classes in their own right.)
Now while I have the utmost respect for Sternbach and his Star Trek work, this is patently absurd. First of all, even putting aside the illogic of slapping together random parts and hoping they will all work together (which might even cause more havoc than the ship being attacked by the enemy), the parts are wildly out of scale. And let's take the Curry for example. 80% of the Excelsior frame is already there. So why not just assemble the saucer and neck at the front of the secondary hull, like the Excelsiors normally are? Why place it in the middle of the secondary hull where the nacelles would usually be? And why would you route the nacelle pylons through the saucer where they were never routed before? Why not just attach them to the secondary hull like how the Excelsior was designed to do?
Also, the Yeager appeared even before the Dominion War. So there would have been no reason to slap an Intrepid class saucer onto an oversized Maquis raider unless that was how the ship was originally designed. And while the Elkins did not appear on screen per its builder of the same name, the only out-of-place component are the out-of-date Miranda class nacelles, which could be explained away by Sternbach's explanation at least. But there's no reason why that ship couldn't have been from a class of its own that usually has more modern nacelles.
Now for the case of the Centaur, the original filming model was supposed to have been scaled down in order to more accurately match the size of the Jem'Hadar fighter it was engaging. These Centaurs, however, are the oversized ones made from the Eaglemoss/Star Trek Fact Files version, where they scale it to the Excelsior. So it's also possible that they are of a different class than the physical kitbash used in "A Time to Stand" (despite having the same name and registry as the original Centaur), although I don't think that was the intent. But what seems to be the intent here is that they are indeed their own unique class and not slapped together like what the Tech Manual states. Unfortunately we still don't have a name for that class. Calling it 'Centaur class' seems a bit lazy to me.
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Agreed. He was essentially 4 things:
1) Native American tribal tradions guy.
2) Maquis Crew v Starfleet crew episode guy
3) Get Torres under control guy
4) Love interest episode: Sesca, Janeway, Seven.
Though there was a decent early Ep with him in the shuttle vs the Ka'Zon youngster episode (DS9 actor crossover).
"Cathexis" was a snoozefest early on but "Initiations" was one of his best episodes along with "Timeless." When the writers bothered to give him something of value to do in an episode he could deliver.
"Nemesis" was great. Hear my tellings. Anybody who disagrees can go straight to the Gloried Way After.
Fathom?
Fathom?
Thanks.
Er, what? The Centaur was never part of FASA. They lost their license to make Trek material after the first season of TNG. If you’re referring to this:
http://fasaststcs.com/index.php/the...planets/star-fleet/centaur-class-xii-frigate/
That’s just a fan-made diagram that has nothing to do with the original FASA Trek role playing games.
i agree with you. personally i've always assumed they were just classes we hadn't seen before. at best, they were "kitbashed" in the sense that they took parts from 2 or more other ships of the same class and used them to put one hull into service. there are just too many oddities for them to be scrap that was welded together.. not just the size differences between part sources but also stuff like the use of TOS ship parts (one ship has an intrepid saucer but a TOS secondary hull! and runabout pylons and TMP nacelles..the USS elkins, for reference) or even non-starship parts like an F-14 fuselage. (the elkins again!)
it makes much more sense to me that these are just less common ship classes, created to look the way they did intentionally. IMO many could have been prototypes or testbeds.. that TOS hulled intrepid might have been a test article for one of the proposed Intrepid class propulsion systems designs. (it does sorta resemble some of the concept art for Voyager), while the Yeager might well be the variable warp engine test bed.
given how much custom engineering would be required to make unrelated parts match up and work together, especially parts built from totally different technological generations and even principles (duotronics vs isolinear for example), building a 1:1 'kitbash' would actually take a lot more time than just melting those parts down and sending them to a shipyard to go into a new build ship. and such long delays would be detrimental to the war effort over all. this is literally the very sort of conditions that lost the Nazi's and Mussolini's italy the 2nd world war. they had to basically hand customize every part for the tanks and planes and ships they built, which meant production rates were slow and repairs even slower. it is also something the russians had a lot of issues with during the cold war. and it seems really improbable that the federation would fall into the same sort of trap.
and i've never thought the centaur and Curry were all that odd.. we've seen the federation use different layouts of similar parts before, with the Galaxy class and Nebula class. and the Refit constitution and the Miranda class. they seem to prefer certain design aesthetics in different periods. (the wrecks made for the wolf 359 graveyard shots for example, all tended to sport either galaxy class style or Ambassador class style aesthetics, with some various additions.)
the centaur comes across as a lighter vessel designed in the time when the excelsior style was the commonplace one. the Centaur we see just being an old worn, and subjected to various less then elegant refits example. (thus explaining the somewhat ugly gribbly bits and piping on the saucer). the Curry might have been designed as a support ship, optimized around its cargo bay and hanger spaces in the secondary hull. (perhaps even moving the warp core into the saucer, to free up more room in the secondary hull), etc.
the Prodigy version might represent a post-war refit that cleaned up the lines again
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Why do you think he would have been 18 when first contact was made? He was shown (or at least it was heavily implied to be him and likely also Ascencia) in the image presented by her Drednok in ep.16 at the start of the big Solum flashback, and he seemed older than 18 there.: https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/epics/PRO-S1/S1E16/PRO-S1E16-215.jpg
Also, it wasn't Ascencia who called him a "bright young leader" (as I mistakenly claimed earlier), it was John Noble: https://trekmovie.com/2022/12/16/in...and-hope-for-redemption-in-star-trek-prodigy/
That description also seems unlikely to be about an 18-year old. I would guess he's a few years older, mid-20s or late 20s. Maybe Vau N'akat tend to be well preserved, Ascencia also doesn't look nor acts like she's 73+.
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