Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 1x20 - "Supernova, Part 2"

[Wouter]

Terry said the Titan-A is a 25th Century ship built with 25th Century technology, it's just inspired by 23rd Century aesthetics. You can see phaser strips on the saucer along side the movie phasers.

It's also not a modified Constitution Refit Class, it's based off the Shangri-La class fan design that Terry was very fond of. The original Shangri-La Class will also be shown representing 23rd Century USS Titan in the ready room of the Titan-A.

Terry also said the Luna-Class Titan went through a lot and had to be retired.

I didn't know about it having 24th-century style phaser strips (which should give a much better arc of fire than the old phaser turrets/ball phasers, important for larger ships), that's good news.

But if they based it on a fan design of what is supposed to be a 23rd century ship that shares significant design elements with the Constitution class, that only shows that it is indeed a kind of update of a 23rd century design (as engineers don't design with aesthetics in mind, for this kind of application: the form is largely going to be dictated by the requirements and the tech level, much like a modern containership or warship is never going to resemble a 19th century tea clipper).

If he wanted this fan design to be in, why not make it an old ship that got dramatically upgraded? They did this with Excelsiors all the time, as a contemporary this would make sense. There was no need to make that link to the Titan, it isn't even Riker's ship. I also don't like the tendency to do the a,b, c thing with too many ships, as this is supposed to be a very rare thing to honour vessels that had very distinguished service records.

I wouldn't know if Kes qualifies as a 'major' character though... but it would certainly be nice to see her again.

As for who the other two major characters could be... I'm surprised no one mentioned Torres.
Tuvok seems like a possible candidate along with Torres.... maybe the Doctor.

I don't think Seven will be present seeing how she's being featured on ST: Pic... but I suppose its possible.

The Hagemans, if I read it right, said that those 2 "pretty big" characters are not from the same show. So, it could be, say, Bashir and Torres, but not Tuvok and Torres as those would be from the same show.

If Kes is not counted as "pretty major", she could of course still be back in addition to said two, more prominent characters.

We don't know who they will bring back, as this also relates to actor/actress availibility and willingness to lend their voice to an animated show on Nickolodeon (with possibly relatively limited pay compared to live action) and I suppose they would also want to give said characters some narrative punch. Okona was used very well.

I’m guessing it’s a Pathfinder class. I know it’s a STO ship but they have been using a lot of them recently.

Any special properties to that class? Does it have a superfast drive or other notable characteristics?

Is Murph not an animal?

Apparently not, Murf is a sentient and even intelligent being (as Rok always claimed) with the capability to 'grow' and learn. Though we all thought he was just a pet during S1A, and the name of the species would appear to be highly misleading (unless it is only the name for that particular stage of their development).

About 25k at least, worse than Wolf 359!

How many ships do we think were lost, out of the 40 or so that were there originally, plus the new arrivals?

25k seems a lot though, considering the destruction happened in slow-motion and escape pods should still have been working (and didn't seem to be targeted).

I'm hoping one of them is Bashir, if only so Dal can have some perspective on the experience of an augment in Starfleet from someone's who dealing/has dealt with with that same issue.

That's a good possibility, because the story possibilities would be quite rich and it's a good actor. But is he available?

Especially if Janeway’s line about ‘bigger plans’ is about the Voyager-A. She dismissed the new Protostar Class in that scene as being that.

She did seem to imply that, though I suppose the plan is to take a vessel through the temporal wormhole (or whatever it is) and get Chakotay (and the size of the vessel used does not seem particularly important, except maybe for practical reasons, with a bigger ship being more powerful and able to carry more people and equipment, while a smaller ship may be less likely to be detected).

In that case, why was the Protostar-class vessel shown though? Merely to say that the prototype was deemed a success, in spite of everything that happened to it? Gwyn also didn't leave on it as her shuttle went elsewhere (if there was another example of the class in orbit they would probably have shown that, rather than this one on the ground).

And they have created extensive CGI assets for this type of vessel - would they just not use that in S2 and go for all new sets? Or would the new hero-ship resemble the Protostar suspiciously in its interior, complete with a large glass dome over the bridge?

 

[Wouter]

Gwyn must have absorbed something from the Diviner when she (litterally) lit up when he dissolved, but it doesn't seem to have been useful info about the Construct nor the location of Solum.

Instead, Gwyn apparently manages to match a particular Star cluster on a large galactic map with an image of the same star cluster that she remembers from the Diviner's holoprogram. That's quite an astounding display of a very remarkable capacity to store and accurately recall information, which would help explain why the Vau N'akat (and in any case, Gwyn in particular) are so extremely good with languages.

 

[Markonian]

So, season’s over.
Episode makes for a nice epilog. Now begins the long wait to see Janeway’s new ship.

Speaking of wait, Christmas came and went without any Prodigy toys on the shelves. Star Trek merchandising is a failure.

 

[Wouter]

There are some complaints that this episode has too much of an epilogue feeling, but I like that about it. This episode/final is what Endgame should have been.

 

[Deks]

How many ships do we think were lost, out of the 40 or so that were there originally, plus the new arrivals?

25k seems a lot though, considering the destruction happened in slow-motion and escape pods should still have been working (and didn't seem to be targeted).

There's also the fact that the allied ships came in and started beaming the crews off the infected SF ships to their own just before any SF ships actually got destroyed (or at least this was implied from the actual footage)... so my guess is that while there might have been some casualties... for the most part, they were likely minimal.

Taking that into account, I would posit that maybe a few dozen to several hundred SF officers may have lost their lives due to sustained battle damage before being beamed off, etc. - but in all honesty, we don't know conclusively.

I'd err on the slightly optimistic side and say the losses were minimal because the allies did show up and started beaming people off the most damaged ships to their own (sort of like triage... get the crews off the critically damaged ships first and then focus on others).

An allied ship or two may have also been destroyed... not sure though as I went through the footage and I couldn't see any get shot down, but I think I remember at least 1 civilian ship being destroyed.

Depending on the number of civilians who are on those ships, I would estimate maybe 150 to 300 civilians and possibly similar amount of SF officers who lost their lives in this catastrophe (total loss of life at maybe about 500-600 - which [grim as it is] is still much lower compared to how many people lost their lives during Wolf 359).

 

[Wouter]

I would also guess a few hundred - a bit less optimistic, but still much less than 25k.

Many vessels were still firing (and thus still in relatively good shape) when the Protostar moved away from the debris, I think only about 10-15 (plus a number of allied/neutral ships) would have been total loss.

 

[Deks]

Gwyn must have absorbed something from the Diviner when she (litterally) lit up when he dissolved, but it doesn't seem to have been useful info about the Construct nor the location of Solum.

It was explained by Prodigy producers and writers that the main reason why the Diviner 'dissolved' was that having his dead body being shown for the other half of the episode in the background would have been awkward (for a show aimed at kids).
So, they had him dissolve instead... but I don't think anything was mentioned to say that there was any kind of telepathic transfer of information from him to her - and there probably wasn't.
Its possible that the simple act of dissolvement triggered a telepathic glow on Gwyn because she was his daughter (and technically made out of his cells) - so just possibly a reaction to his death, but otherwise nothing more.

Instead, Gwyn apparently manages to match a particular Star cluster on a large galactic map with an image of the same star cluster that she remembers from the Diviner's holoprogram. That's quite an astounding display of a very remarkable capacity to store and accurately recall information, which would help explain why the Vau N'akat (and in any case, Gwyn in particular) are so extremely good with languages.

Recognizing star clusters where your home planet is wouldn't be that much of a problem in Trek if you ask me.

Remember that Gwyn grew up in space looking at interstellar maps all her life (like a lot of other kids in Trek probably would have too because space travel is a standard/integral part of their daily lives - or at least it is within UFP - so, I would imagine that part of their learning curriculuum would have been learning about other cultures, space maps, etc.).

I wouldn't be surprised if kids in UFP are taught similar things like Gwyn was and most (but not all) would be able to recognize various stellar bodies etc. from just visual observations to orient themselves.

Also, remember that kids basically absorb stuff like sponges... the memory retention capabilities of a child are much bigger compared to fully mature adults.

Its possible/likely that UFP is using a completely different approach to study/learning by using gamification methods of sorts (and not stressing students with pointless exams all the time etc. - aka a far more relaxed and very different approach to learning compared to how its done today) to teach their kids huge amounts of stuff with relatively small effort, and are able (as a result) to absorb that much more comprehensive information (similar techniques would work for adults who want to learn new things at later stages in life - its not boring industrialised education, its gamified method of learning where you almost don't even realize you are basically learning).

UFP could be full of geniuses as a result... but probably not all (or even most) of them would necessarily opt to join Starfleet.

 

[Wouter]

It was explained by Prodigy producers and writers that the main reason why the Diviner 'dissolved' was that having his dead body being shown for the other half of the episode in the background would have been awkward (for a show aimed at kids).
So, they had him dissolve instead... but I don't think anything was mentioned to say that there was any kind of telepathic transfer of information from him to her - and there probably wasn't.
Its possible that the simple act of dissolvement triggered a telepathic glow on Gwyn because she was his daughter (and technically made out of his cells) - so just possibly a reaction to his death, but otherwise nothing more.



Recognizing star clusters where your home planet is wouldn't be that much of a problem in Trek if you ask me.

Remember that Gwyn grew up in space looking at interstellar maps all her life (like a lot of other kids in Trek probably would have too because space travel is a standard/integral part of their daily lives - or at least it is within UFP - so, I would imagine that part of their learning curriculuum would have been learning about other cultures, space maps, etc.).

I wouldn't be surprised if kids in UFP are taught similar things like Gwyn was and most (but not all) would be able to recognize various stellar bodies etc. from just visual observations to orient themselves.

Also, remember that kids basically absorb stuff like sponges... the memory retention capabilities of a child are much bigger compared to fully mature adults.
Its possible/likely that UFP is using a completely different approach to study/learning by using gamification methods of sorts to teach their kids huge amounts of stuff with relatively small effort, and are able (as a result) to absorb that much more comprehensive information.

UFP could be full of geniuses asa result... but probably not all (or even most) of them would necessarily opt to join Starfleet.

It's indeed possible that the approach to study has been improved a lot by the UFP (it would even be necessary to keep up even somewhat with all the knowledge and histories etc). However, learning languages still seems to be difficult (as it is in real life) with for example Tysess not speaking Federation standard (English, I suppose).

Gwyn's home planet is actually Tars Lamora, sadly. Thematically, it is actually sad that Gwyn, who was very lonely in Tars Lamora as her voice actress said on the "Ready Room", is now lonely again, even if she may make new friends relatively quickly.

I think its astounding though, that she would look at the sky of a holosimulation that she has never seen before (and she has never been to Solum), pick up a detail from it (while arguing with her father and generally being stressed out) and then match that detail later with a very extensive star map (because she doesn't even know the region of space where Solum would be).

I read the explanation of the Hageman brothers regarding why they chose to dissolve his body (and that it wasn't planned originally), but the animation made a point of it to engage Gwyn's "bluetooth" equivalent. This has always been used before as a communication tool (either with their protomatter tools or with each other) in earlier uses. They could have let the body dissolve without any communication being implied. The intention, IMO, is to show she absorbed/learned something, but what is unclear. It may just have been their equivalent of final words/impressions.

 

[Dukhat]

The secret one.

Ah, I see. A nonsense answer.

Lucas in 1999 said that Star Wars is a children's serial. So, he apparently bought the marketing department's BS.

Yes, because The Phantom Menace came out in 1999, and Lucas decided to make it a kid’s movie because he cared more about selling Jar Jar Binks toys than making an actual good film.

 

[valkyrie013]

Even without the universal translator, there is probably some Alert Sound or Color that tells people GTFO the ship.
Some ships have the larger Argo and type 11 shuttles at a guess thats not affected by the construct. and as said, allied ships that joined in and helped with the evacuation.
Plenty of opportunity to leave the ship and battle field.

Also, Hopping for the Vesta Class for the Voyager A!!

 

[Oddish]

Speaking of wait, Christmas came and went without any Prodigy toys on the shelves. Star Trek merchandising is a failure.

Ughhh, and that was money in the bank. Even if people didn't buy them for their kids, Trekkies would buy them for themselves.

 

[fireproof78]

Ah, I see. A nonsense answer.

Was not aware it required a serious answer.

Yes, because The Phantom Menace came out in 1999, and Lucas decided to make it a kid’s movie because he cared more about selling Jar Jar Binks toys than making an actual good film.

Sure...that's it...

 

[Deks]

It's indeed possible that the approach to study has been improved a lot by the UFP (it would even be necessary to keep up even somewhat with all the knowledge and histories etc). However, learning languages still seems to be difficult (as it is in real life) with for example Tysess not speaking Federation standard (English, I suppose).

This is probably because of UT's. So, there may not be huge emphasis on learning new languages as a result because within UFP, UT's don't really malfunction.
But I was surprised at least that non human species that serve in SF don't know/understand what is considered Standard (aka, English). One would think this would be a sort of requirement to be able to communicate with each other in case UT's go down (as its more likely to happen during an attack and technology can malfunction as a result).

Heck, if you're part of UFP in general, I think everyone would at least be encouraged to learn how to speak and write Standard at the very least.
The very word 'standard' implies that this is a common language in UFP... and as such one would hope/expect that it would be kinda mandatory to learn it once you become part of UFP.

But, communicators or not, these species have been living and working together in a union for over 200 years... even with scrambling of UT's, its extremely unlikely that they wouldn't be able to cooperate - because communication can extend beyond words.

The lack of UT's worked on Tars Lamora because no one there really experienced cooperation of that magnitude.
Inside UFP, breakdown of verbal communications would make things difficult yes, but not impossible.

Gwyn's home planet is actually Tars Lamora, sadly. Thematically, it is actually sad that Gwyn, who was very lonely in Tars Lamora as her voice actress said on the "Ready Room", is now lonely again, even if she may make new friends relatively quickly.

I think its astounding though, that she would look at the sky of a holosimulation that she has never seen before (and she has never been to Solum), pick up a detail from it (while arguing with her father and generally being stressed out) and then match that detail later with a very extensive star map (because she doesn't even know the region of space where Solum would be).

For Gwyn, being told about Solum was something of an important experience... it was something that she always wanted to know for one and it was deeply impactful.
Plus, we tend to memorize things very clearly when events are associated with emotional responses (good and bad).
So, I don't think it was that strange of Gwyn to recognize those constellations from Solum's holo and be able to determine its general location from that (she knows where to look for it, but doesn't know EXACTLY where it is - it will probably still take her a bit of time to locate Solum's exact location).

Also, she probably looked at stellar maps off screen at one point or another during the second half of the season (after recovering her memories) trying to determine where Solum was in case she needed to go there.

I read the explanation of the Hageman brothers regarding why they chose to dissolve his body (and that it wasn't planned originally), but the animation made a point of it to engage Gwyn's "bluetooth" equivalent. This has always been used before as a communication tool (either with their protomatter tools or with each other) in earlier uses. They could have let the body dissolve without any communication being implied. The intention, IMO, is to show she absorbed/learned something, but what is unclear. It may just have been their equivalent of final words/impressions.

I personally treat the effect as something that was triggered by her father's death... but beyond that, no, I don't think there was any info exchange as he was already dead by the time he dissolved.
Even though this effect was usually seen for telepathy and exchange of information, it doesn't mean that's the only thing that can trigger it. A deep emotional effect could have the same effect (especially in close proximity to a dying father for whom she still felt something).

Of course I could be wrong, and we may get an explanation in Season 2 (but I don't think we will).

 

[Dukhat]

Was not aware it required a serious answer.

I will remember that the next time you reply to any of my posts.

Sure...that's it...

Prove me wrong. With a serious answer, so we’re clear on that.

 

[Tuskin38]

(as engineers don't design with aesthetics in mind, for this kind of application: the form is largely going to be dictated by the requirements and the tech level, much like a modern containership or warship is never going to resemble a 19th century tea clipper).

This will be my last comment as this isn't the Picard subforum (we do have a Season 3 thread over there if you want to continue)

But I'm pretty sure with the future tech of the 24th Century form factor won't matter much when it comes to the bulk of the hull, especially with miniaturization. Now specific tech like Warp Engines maybe shape does matter, which is why the Titan share's its nacelles with the Stargazer. The Bridge is just because they didn't have the time (and maybe budget) to make a whole new set for Season 3.

Dave Blass is using one of the non-canon reasoning for the bridge, that they're modules you can just pop in and out.

Also, Hopping for the Vesta Class for the Voyager A!!

Paramount doesn't own the rights to the Vesta design.

It would all depend if they can reach a deal with Radmaker, but I doubt he'd sign away the complete rights, he's always just given conditional rights before.

Besides I'd rather they come up with a brand new design for the ship.

Any special properties to that class? Does it have a superfast drive or other notable characteristics?

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/k4X8Qd

 

[fireproof78]

I will remember that the next time you reply to any of my posts.

Sorry. I am sarcastic by default. When things don't have an immediate answer I have fun making stuff up. Apologies if that isn't fun for you.

Prove me wrong. With a serious answer, so we’re clear on that.

I think the biggest aspect of TPM was that it was an experiment in digital filmmaking. It wasn't just Jar-Jar, though that certainly was a part of it since he was the "First full CGI character" as proclaimed by the marketing department of LFL. Which isn't accurate, but nevermind. Everything George seemed focus on was making the technology work, and using CGI models as much as possible, including Jar Jar and battle droids.

 

[Anduinel]

Ughhh, and that was money in the bank. Even if people didn't buy them for their kids, Trekkies would buy them for themselves.

Srs. I ordered my gf a custom Murf plushie for Christmas, but would have happily shelled out for an official one (and not one of the dinky LE things they were handing out at SDCC).

 

[Dukhat]

I think the biggest aspect of TPM was that it was an experiment in digital filmmaking. It wasn't just Jar-Jar, though that certainly was a part of it since he was the "First full CGI character" as proclaimed by the marketing department of LFL. Which isn't accurate, but nevermind. Everything George seemed focus on was making the technology work, and using CGI models as much as possible, including Jar Jar and battle droids.

But that has nothing to do with Lucas's original vision of making a fairy tale for adults changing to making movies 'for kids' because of marketing dollars.

 

[fireproof78]

But that has nothing to do with Lucas's original vision of making a fairy tale for adults changing to making movies 'for kids' because of marketing dollars.

Well, sounds like it is time to reread Rinzler's book and see what Lucas thought with the original. Because his original vision went through several iterations. You're probably right though. I just think that attitude came about because he sold merchandise with the original and didn't expect to make any money off of the first film.

 

[Oddish]

Geez... the first fully CGI character ever created... and it's frickin' Jar-jar.

How wude.