Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 1x17 - "Ghost in the Machine"

[Deks]

I don’t know about that: the points of those augments (and already back in space seed, actually) was that with greater intelligence they also got a bigger ego and had therefore domineering tendencies. I don’t get those tendencies from bashir or Dahl, though, so it seems to me that not all augments are necessarily the same. Which makes a lot of sense but goes further to underline that the humans have an approach to genetics that is dictated by fear, not by logic. Which of course was Phlox’s point of view on Enterprise.

The whole premise of DNA controlling behavior is bunk anyway.
Even on Trek its been well established that environment shapes behavior. You can be born with tendencies towards certain things, but whether or not they emerge or not depends on the environment you're brought up in.
The Augments on ENT were raised by Soong who had issues with Earth in general, disregard for authority, and he raised the augments on a fairly desolate planet (aka, not many other kids or adults to guide them).
Is it a wonder majority turned out as they did and Bashir did not?

 

[fireproof78]

Humans driven by emotion?

 

[jackoverfull]

The whole premise of DNA controlling behavior is bunk anyway.

You can be born with tendencies towards certain things

what if those tendencies are very prominent?

in any case, as I said, Earth’s approach to the matter is far from logical, which by the 24th is rather appalling

 

[Timofnine]

The whole premise of DNA controlling behavior is bunk anyway.
Even on Trek its been well established that environment shapes behavior. You can be born with tendencies towards certain things, but whether or not they emerge or not depends on the environment you're brought up in.
The Augments on ENT were raised by Soong who had issues with Earth in general, disregard for authority, and he raised the augments on a fairly desolate planet (aka, not many other kids or adults to guide them).
Is it a wonder majority turned out as they did and Bashir did not?

DNA does affect behaviour as it effects our physical development, but it does *not* control our behaviour. An individuals behaviour is controlled by ones own mental self discipline and capacity for understanding what is morally right or wrong; the strength of mind to control emotions and urges that enhanced physiologies may produce. Sometimes external influences around people affect an individuals behaviour, whether they are augment or not, and these interventions and interactions help to shape a mind in both positive and negative ways, through the education and nurturing of a mind or even the intimidation and controlling or manipulation of a mind. Augments probably have a harder time controlling their emotions and reactions to situations because their biological hormonal chemical releases are so much more heightened in comparison to a non augment. For example, somebody augmented to be stronger may release more testosterone which would make them more susceptible to bursts of anger and frustration or rage. Our DNA defines how we physically develop as ‘living constructs’, but it does not define us as individuals. More efficient or developed adrenal glands for example via genetic manipulation would potentially lead to heightened anxiety and possibly confrontational behaviour in an augment as a result of an enhanced ‘fight of flight’ response… though the benefits of this augmentation would be strong focus, concentration and strength. These kinds of genetic augmentation and biological changes would result in enhanced hormone and chemical production in the body. The mind of an augment may find it hard to deal with these strong biological urges (resulting from DNA changes) in much the same way as Vulcan’s naturally struggled with strong biological urges before they followed the path of Surak’s teachings and logic. Augments are probably rarely taught how to control their overpowered thoughts, mental capacity, enhanced feelings and sensations. I would imagine that some augments probably have strong sexual desires and urges too as a result of enhanced chemical production which they would find hard to control, like being in a permanent state of Pon Far.

 

[Timofnine]

I had a thought this morning, is it possible that Vulcans themselves were once augments and this secret was hidden? They do have extreme strength and mental capabilities. The Vulcans, or at least some of them, may have enhanced themselves and this could have led to Surak having to discipline the species with his ideologies and path to logic due to the resulting extreme emotions and lack of self control that the genetic enhancements brought to the species. The Romulan’s do not seem as strong or intelligent as the Vulcan’s and likely *not* augmented, neither do other proto Vulcan species seem augmented.

If this was true and the secret was ever revealed, would it mean that Vulcan’s would no longer be allowed to serve in Starfleet? This could be a good storyline which leads to other augments being allowed to join Starfleet. A dark Vulcan secret of genetic enhancement hidden in their ancient history from the time’s of Surak. They would have had the tech to do this, as they also had the tech to build starships and colony ships.

 

[Oddish]

If this was true and the secret was ever revealed, would it mean that Vulcan’s would no longer be allowed to serve in Starfleet?

Their people would likely be grandfathered in, given that Vulcans in their current state co-founded the Federation.

 

[Timofnine]

Their people would likely be grandfathered in, given that Vulcans in their current state co-founded the Federation.

Una could be ok too then if her augmentation was from multiple generations back? I’m not sure about Dal. It is of no fault of his own that he is an augment, he did not even know about it until recently in a similar way as to how Bashir did not know about his augmentation at first. Maybe Dal will do something extremely heroic like prevent the destruction of Romulus, in which case he might get special dispensation to enter the academy on Janeway’s recommendation?

 

[Tuskin38]

Una could be ok too then if her augmentation was from multiple generations back?

Her species weren't founding members of the Federation, there would be no 'grandfathering'.

 

[Timofnine]

Her species weren't founding members of the Federation, there would be no 'grandfathering'.

Maybe the Vulcan’s want to keep their secret? Therefore special exception could be made for Una if Pike had a quiet word with a Vulcan ambassador such as Sarek who could sway a court ruling? But if it is Sarek, Spock would have to be off on a mission somewhere as they were not on speaking terms in this time period and had not seen each other in many years.

 

[Tuskin38]

Spock would have to be off on a mission somewhere as they were not on speaking terms in this time period and had not seen each other in many years.

They hadn't spoken as father and son for many years. That doesn't preclude them talking on official non-family terms.

 

[Oddish]

I'm not sure Dal would be considered an augment per se. Maybe he's more of a hybrid. Spock and Troi made it through the Academy just fine, and B'Elanna failed due to temperament rather than bloodline.

 

[fireproof78]

They hadn't spoken as father and son for many years. That doesn't preclude them talking on official non-family terms.

Exactly. Use of very formal language, titles and interacting on duty only.

 

[Wouter]

One thing I don't quite understand about the earlier simulations in leaving the Neutral Zone is that they never seemed to consider simply using the Protodrive, even though they made a big deal of repairing it last week. Are they concerned that the Dauntless would right away be able to follow? Or does it need a long run at high warp before it can "fire"?

OK, apparently they were not so much trying to leave the neutral zone and escape the Dauntless, but the intent was to seek it out and communicate with it. It makes sense that way.

 

[Wouter]

Interesting detail about the red flash in holo-Janeway's eyes, noticed by Jorg Hillebrand on Twitter: https://twitter.com/gaghyogi49/status/1602721008984756227?s=20&t=ltusXlN654qggj4PWfllrA

 

[1001001]

That was my favorite one so far.

9

 

[137th Gebirg]

So, interestingly, I noticed something that seemed quite the blast from the past. Cygnus X-1 doesn't have screencaps of the most recent episode yet, but I went back to a previous one - 1.15 Masquerade - to see if it was there too and it was. Dal's genetic map had a number of species logos. Many recognizable, others not so much. But there were two (seen in the upper left-hand corner of the screen) that I was surprised to see:


None other than the logos for the original Orion Colonies and Gorn Hegemony from the old Trek FASA RPG! Love those Easter eggs...

Although there also seems to be the Maquis logo in there as well (below and to the right of the Klingon trefoil), which is an organization of multiple species ad shouldn't be considered a genetic component, I would think.

 

[cooleddie74]

One of those on that screen looks like the Xindi-Arboreal symbol.

 

[Timofnine]

Top centre is the Dominion logo. But the Dominion is also an organisation much like the Federation, so it does not specify which species from within the Dominion Dal is also genetically related to. Is it possible that he has Founder DNA? This would explain his shape shifting abilities within this episode.

 

[137th Gebirg]

True. I highly doubt it's Changeling DNA (do they even have DNA?) Could be Jem'Hadar, Vorta or any number of member races.

 

[Timofnine]

True. I highly doubt it's Changeling DNA (do they even have DNA?) Could be Jem'Hadar, Vorta or any number of member races.

But he shape shifted.