Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 1x12 - "Let Sleeping Borg Lie"

[Wouter]

Oh and a reminder that our heroes straight up killed two Borg in this episode.

Also, apparently are indirectly responsible for the Junior Lieutenant's death.

Only two? Dal shot one, Rok also killed at least one (if not more), Jankom at least hurt one and I guess Gwyn may have gotten one or more as well.

I'm not convinced that our (provisional) junior lieutenant is dead. He may yet turn up. It would be weird if he died offscreen, and I think he has info that needs to be added to the dripfeed for the people on the Dauntless.

 

[jackoverfull]

You mean the Denobulan lieutenant? He got away in an escape pod.

i know. But since I doubt that pod had warp drive he should still be around.

 

[Wouter]

And the Dauntless may yet find him, if he hasn't been picked up by another (local) vessel passing by.

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

That in itself would spread the virus, would it not?

Maybe not if they used a brand new subspace radio not tied into the Protostar computer?

 

[fireproof78]

Tellarites over the decades
https://twitter.com/gaghyogi49/status/1489728801991020544

I know what Pog's problem is!

 

[AnimationAdmiral]

They may yet explore other options of reaching Starfleet. It’s only been one episode since they found out it existed. As Zero said in this episode, there’s also the danger of someone else getting the weaponry and using it for evil. For better or worse, they are the stewards of this thing.

 

[Wouter]

Maybe not if they used a brand new subspace radio not tied into the Protostar computer?

They only have the Protostar's communication equipment, and everything its (vehicle and other) replicators can produce may also be suspect.

They may yet explore other options of reaching Starfleet. It’s only been one episode since they found out it existed. As Zero said in this episode, there’s also the danger of someone else getting the weaponry and using it for evil. For better or worse, they are the stewards of this thing.

Since they will meet Okona and at least one other group of aliens/humans, they could potentially leave a message through them. Other options (if the Dauntless gets very near) are to use the running lights to transmit morse code or to just drop a "message in a bottle" (on paper, if need be) for the Dauntless to pick up. Or a person could leave the ship in one of the spacesuits of the relay station and get picked up.

Having said that, I think that any (deliberate and two-way) communication between vice-admiral Janeway and the kids will be left for the season finale.

 

[Deks]

I think there's a lot of course correction for Kathryn Janeway in this episode and I wonder if it's Mulgrew's influence as I have a much more consistent grasp of her character than I do from Voyager (and I just rewatched the series). To be blunt, Hologram Janeway is SCARED of the Borg and pretty much tells the crew to run away from them. It's a vulnerability that adds to the character and fits much-better with what we know of the Borg while regular Janeway never did run from the Borg but more or less ran at them.

Different set of circumstances.
During her time in the DQ, Janeway was a Captian and had an experienced/trained SF crew at her disposal.
Also, during the first encounter with the Collective, Species 8472 were involved which gave her an edge.
Additionally, Janeway was noted by both Chakotay and Tuvok to have a knack for feeling responsible for dragging the entire crew along with her because of her decision to destroy the Array.

She was also semi-desperate in trying to find solutions to bring the ship back and crew home (faster)... that necessitated her to take some unprecedented (but calculated) risks.

Also, even real/live action Janeway was noted to be afraid of the Borg... but as a captain, she needed to project confidence to the rest of the crew.

I don't particularly remember Janeway flying at the Borg and not being afraid of them. The only time I could really say this may have happened was perhaps in Unimatrix Zero, but again, she had the Borg resistance there in the background... and while flying at a tactical cube may have been suicidal, VOY was heavily upgraded by that time and had 7 on board to help too.

As a hologram, she's an advisor (not a Captain). And it would be reasonable for her to show a side of herself to these kids that she didn't to her own crew (or at least not all of them - I suspect Tuvok and Chakotay were privy to her real side more than anyone because she was closest to them).

Part of what I like about this episode is the Borg are also treated as far less personal in their evil and no less malevolent for it. The Borg aren't doing this because they get pleasure from evil like the Borg Queen or sadistically tormenting Seven or Doctor Jurati. No, they're an assembly line and the rest of the galaxy is parts. It's like my best friend, Michael, has the same opinion on Davros for the Daleks.

While I hadn't watched Doctor who... I have to say the Borg do work better without the Queen. The original premise of the Borg in TNG was that they don't have a single leader (who is prone to make mistakes - its the collective mind of all of them) - which also made them much more sinister/dangerous.
Also the Borg aren't 'evil' per say. 'Evil' is also such an antiquated term that doesn't really do anything justice - its heavily biased description as well.
Like any other species, the Borg follow certain 'directives'... but the key difference is that they are usually more advanced than most species in the galaxy so that when they recognize something of use, they just take it and make it part of themselves. The don't concern themselves with cultural niceties because they find them useless obstructions (which to be fair, wouldn't be a wrong description - because people tend to go through various jumps and hoops, run around and seemingly avoid getting to the point - to me that's also ridiculously bad aspect of communicating with other people because I prefer directness).

I didn't particularly mind the queen, but she did seem more of an 'individual' which didn't contrast that well with the premise of what the Borg were.
If you recall, even during VOY's first encounter with them (during 8472 invasion), the Queen was not there to discuss things with them... but it also stands to reason the Queen may have filed that as an anomalous encounter. It wasn't until 7 got liberated from the Borg and then the Borg tried to get their hands on her again in Dark Frontier that the Queen started to take a more prominent role in the Collective's interaction with VOY - plus, Janeway dealt a severe blow to the Queen by getting into her chamber, taking 7 back, and then managing to fly away in the Delta Flyer, only for VOY to blow up the Queen's Diamond while still in the TW conduit (along with the Queen herself) -this probably grabbed her attention (though I also think Janeway had it a bit too easy while in the Queen's chambers in Dark Frontier).

The Daleks are infinitely better and more terrifying without Davros because the Daleks are terrifying due to their lack of individuality and indifference. This episode nicely conveyed the Borg are dangerous because we're ants to them.

Honestly, I never thought the UFP was 'ants' to the Collective. In fairness, if UFP actually USED their technology in a more sensible fashion, they'd probably be able to resist against the Borg much more effectively and keep them at bay.
Plus, SF DID technically create deployable armor and transphasic torpedoes against the Borg which seemingly kept them at bay in an alternate timeline - or at least Janeway and her crew have.
The UFP just needed a bit of time to get things right in their dealings with the Borg - it was actually a good thing the UFP was so far away from the DQ... plus with who knows how many other species having issues with the Borg, and possibly at the time more interesting than UFP, its possible the Collective just figured it would send 1 ship at a time to the AQ to test UFP occasionally (which also gave it time to adapt).

Oh and a reminder that our heroes straight up killed two Borg in this episode.

Yes... but that's not so unusual. In the end, even with the Borg moving so slowly, they were coming at the kids from all sides and overwhelmed them after adapting to phasers extremely fast (which should have had rotating frequencies fully automated by now).

Also, apparently are indirectly responsible for the Junior Lieutenant's death.

If you are referring to the Denobulan from the relay station, he got away in the escape pod.

 

[Deks]

I was getting the impression our protagonists were zipping and zagging across the galaxy at will. The Federation outpost being in the Alpha Quadrant.

Adding onto this, I still have to say no. We have no reason to think the Protostar did other jumps besides the one we saw in the first half od Season 1.

If you recall, Icheb's cube was close to being destroyed (and it probably ended up destroyed). Also, VOY recovered the neurolithic pathogen, and it was used again in Endgame by future Admiral Janeway to destroy the Queen and cripple the Collective as a whole.

I suspect this was just a random cube that was in a dormant state as a result of what VOY did during 'Endgame' (but it happened to have been in the Beta Quadrant when 'Endgame' happened).

The kids woke up the Borg (who were not operating at their fullest) on that particular cube, but we have no way of knowing if their actions affected the Borg everywhere else in the galaxy - and its possible their nanoprobes got affected as a whole, so they wouldn't be able to just willy nilly assimilate individuals via drones anymore... they need specialized chambers to do so.
Its also possible that organisations as a whole would be able to more effectively resist the Collective now, which would lead to the Artifact we saw in Picard series.

 

[Deks]

They only have the Protostar's communication equipment, and everything its (vehicle and other) replicators can produce may also be suspect.


Since they will meet Okona and at least one other group of aliens/humans, they could potentially leave a message through them. Other options (if the Dauntless gets very near) are to use the running lights to transmit morse code or to just drop a "message in a bottle" (on paper, if need be) for the Dauntless to pick up. Or a person could leave the ship in one of the spacesuits of the relay station and get picked up.

Having said that, I think that any (deliberate and two-way) communication between vice-admiral Janeway and the kids will be left for the season finale.

This.
While its possible that Janeway may figure out what really happened by episode 5 or 6 (possibly 7), the remainder of the season could be dealing with the Diviner and the SF ensign who is a spy (the Trill probably).
Real Janeway as you say likely won't have an opportunity to speak with the kids themselves (and her holographic self) until the very end (which will be GREAT to see if it happens).

By this point, she may transfer a few of the people off the Dauntless and properly command and train the kids to be part of SF and search for Chakotay.
The Dauntless might not be able to disarm the Diviner's weapon either (which would allow the kids to continue operate on the ship but with adult supervision - after all, taking the ship back to SF would be too dangerous if the weapon is not disarmed).
I also wouldn't be surprised if the Lt. J.G. Denobulan (from ep.11) ends up on the Protostar too.

 

[Wouter]

This.
By this point, she may transfer a few of the people off the Dauntless and properly command and train the kids to be part of SF and search for Chakotay.
The Dauntless might not be able to disarm the Diviner's weapon either (which would allow the kids to continue operate on the ship but with adult supervision - after all, taking the ship back to SF would be too dangerous if the weapon is not disarmed).
I also wouldn't be surprised if the Lt. J.G. Denobulan (from ep.11) ends up on the Protostar too.

Yes, and the hope of finding Chakotay may give Janeway a reason to not just scuttle the ship into a star, as was suggested. I wonder if Jellico will not want the ship destroyed as soon as there is an opportunity, though, once he learns about the weapon. Possible source of conflict between Janeway and her boss.

 

[Deks]

Yes, and the hope of finding Chakotay may give Janeway a reason to not just scuttle the ship into a star, as was suggested. I wonder if Jellico will not want the ship destroyed as soon as there is an opportunity, though, once he learns about the weapon. Possible source of conflict between Janeway and her boss.

Wouldn't surprise me if that's why he would have been introduced. Though to be fair, Jellico may have changed since we saw him on TNG

The Protostar (even if it cannot go back to Starfleet right now) and with Admiral Janeway's convincing of Jellico could still be given special dispensation to operate away from the Federation (at least until the weapon is disarmed) and/or different forms of communications would have to be initiated with the ship that can bypass the weapon (in which case it would still be too dangerous to have it get back to SF HQ, but as I said, it can still operate remotely and leave status update messages in an 'safe' manner).

Maybe someone will also get through to the Diviner at the end of all of that and he will disarm the weapon.

 

[Wouter]

Maybe someone will also get through to the Diviner at the end of all of that and he will disarm the weapon.

That's a possible ending of the entire Vau N'akat arc (and of the show in its present form, probably). The Diviner (or the hidden ensign) who finally gets convinced destroying Starfleet isn't the solution they seek/need. Would be a Trek thing to do, even more so in children/family programming.

A problem is that the Diviner acted really spiteful in the midseason finale, when his apparent desire to get Gwyn back on his side didn't stop him from the unnecessary attack on the Rev-12's engines. He had to know that would infuriate Gwyn while gaining him nothing, but he couldn't help himself it seems. Combined with his earlier activities at Tars Lamora, this makes a full redemption quasi impossible. But not the possibility that he will deactivate the weapon, finally.

If Asencia is Vau N'akat, she has been living with a Starfleet crew for quite some time, and she will probably come in contact with Gwyn sooner or later. That makes her another potential candidate to rethink her objectives and methods, as she has to be influenced to some degree (like Gwyn has been influenced by Rok, Zero and the others).

 

[Deks]

That's a possible ending of the entire Vau N'akat arc (and of the show in its present form, probably). The Diviner (or the hidden ensign) who finally gets convinced destroying Starfleet isn't the solution they seek/need. Would be a Trek thing to do, even more so in children/family programming.

A problem is that the Diviner acted really spiteful in the midseason finale, when his apparent desire to get Gwyn back on his side didn't stop him from the unnecessary attack on the Rev-12's engines. He had to know that would infuriate Gwyn while gaining him nothing, but he couldn't help himself it seems. Combined with his earlier activities at Tars Lamora, this makes a full redemption quasi impossible. But not the possibility that he will deactivate the weapon, finally.

He was also exposed to Zero's real form in full intensity.
Perhaps this experience may be a contributing factor on his road to redemption. Or, he might end up dying in the end and disable the weapon as a way to 'apologize' to Gwyn perhaps?
Lots of ways to do things... will be interesting to see how they go.

But its also possible the ship will never be able to return to SF... which would in a weird Trek sense deny SF access to the Protodrive (which in itself wouldn't make sense because they have copies of logs, construction methods, specs, everything... plus Torres too who according to that Janeway log was the project lead - Ah Torres - you know, since Mulgrew did mention she would like to bring back all of VOY cast to Prodigy... perhaps they will end up meeting the kids at different points in the series and training them).

Would be great to see how Torres interacts with Jankom Pog for example and see what kind of 'mess' he's been doing to 'her' engine.

Anyway, my point is that if you recall, Disco did a stupid thing in S4 by saying that the Generation 2 of the Spore Drive which Booker and Tarka stole to go on their own little 'mission' was effectively the only 'copy'... but this doesn't make sense.
Tarka had to make logs, backups, files, etc.... and this kind of a project would not be contained to a singular location (given its importance) where Tarka coul for example erase the logs and no one would have access.
Backups of the logs would need to be created on protected storage systems at SF HQ or whichever division is responsible for backing up those files.
So, even with Tarka stealing the only prototype of gen 2 Spore drive, it wouldn't matter because SF would have the specs on the thing on file to replicate/make a new one (but EVERYONE behaved like the prototype could not be fabricated again without having access to the actual prototype).

I just hope Prodigy writers will be smarter and say that SF has all the design specs of the Proto core/drive and can make another one easily enough.
The thing is, the Protostar's data logs on the how the Proto core and drive behaved in practice would have been usable to SF... but they can just make another one and test it independently of the Protostar... or the kids could be tasked to writing on the performance of the Protodrive in a secure way to SF that would not trigger the weapon.

 

[Seven of Five]

A 7 from me this week. I'm enjoying arc work, and the Borg cube animations were awesome!

It's just a shame that the actual encounter with the Borg was a little tepid, as the Borg well has been run well and truly dry over the years, and this didn't really add anything new.

Not a bad stab, though.

 

[Wouter]

He was also exposed to Zero's real form in full intensity.
But its also possible the ship will never be able to return to SF... which would in a weird Trek sense deny SF access to the Protodrive (which in itself wouldn't make sense because they have copies of logs, construction methods, specs, everything... plus Torres too who according to that Janeway log was the project lead - Ah Torres - you know, since Mulgrew did mention she would like to bring back all of VOY cast to Prodigy... perhaps they will end up meeting the kids at different points in the series and training them).

Would be great to see how Torres interacts with Jankom Pog for example and see what kind of 'mess' he's been doing to 'her' engine.

Torres worked on the Dauntless, not (that we know of) on the Protostar. But it still would be fun to bring her in.

 

[Deks]

Torres worked on the Dauntless, not (that we know of) on the Protostar. But it still would be fun to bring her in.

Oh yeah. Sorry. My bad. Was working until 3am yesterday and whole day today. No wonder I got that wrong.

 

[Deks]

A 7 from me this week. I'm enjoying arc work, and the Borg cube animations were awesome!

It's just a shame that the actual encounter with the Borg was a little tepid, as the Borg well has been run well and truly dry over the years, and this didn't really add anything new.

Not a bad stab, though.

Well, given the fact its Zero (and an energy life form on top of this), and the fact a neurolithic pathogen disabled the Borg's nanoprobes, provided the kids with means to resist in an unconventional capacity.

One would have thought that assimilating an energy being would not be possible (given that the nanoprobes would have nothing physical to latch onto except his container - but that's just a shell for the most part), but it seems this isn't needed (because they can seemingly overwhelm a mind via a neural link really).
This also opens up the premise for the Borg that they can assimilate Changelings using a similar method... they don't have to inject nanoprobes into anyone... or, once they slave the mind of a changeling to the collective, then the nanoprobes could absorb changeling properties.

 

[Charles Phipps]

If you are referring to the Denobulan from the relay station, he got away in the escape pod.

Janeway said there were no survivors.

 

[Wouter]

Janeway said there were no survivors.

That they could see. They did not mention the remains of a destroyed escape pod, so the question remains open. For all we know, he has been picked up by Okona/Nandi/Rev-12/random Romulan warbird/...

Or he may be near, just not in the immediate area of the Dauntless' initial sensor sweep.