Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 3x09 - "Trusted Sources"

[Dukhat]

I got the impression the freighter was sublight, as it had no warp nacelles and only traveled from one planet to another planet that was in the same solar system. I’m not sure why one would even need a warp ship in that instance. And it doesn’t really matter. The Ornarans and Brekkians did not want Picard to interfere, and not being Federation worlds, he had to respect that.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I got the impression the freighter was sublight, as it had no warp nacelles and only traveled from one planet to another planet that was in the same solar system. I’m not sure why one would even need a warp ship in that instance. And it doesn’t really matter. The Ornarans and Brekkians did not want Picard to interfere, and not being Federation worlds, he had to respect that.

Except for the part where they sent a distress call, were willing to take aid/repair of their ships, and one side was clearly being lied to by the other. Shockingly, the people who didn't want him involved were the ones carrying out crime.

 

[Imaus]

I really didn't think this episode would go how it went. Lots of jupes and jives this season and I love it, since episode 1.

As for symbosis, a lot of us feel like Picard is wrong yet can't discern why, or that what we would do, Picard won't do. If we saw two nations abusing each other like that...would we really intervene? The world is full of the minor and regional powers stomping all over each other, economically, politically, militarily.

It is nice to say stuff like, Picard should had told someone else, got Starfleet Medical in there, imposed the cure. But he really was tied. They didn't want him there, at least, one half didn't; the other half couldn't function enough to ask for Federation aid or support in a de jure way. It is still weird no one else checked up on them though.

If they're both in the same system and the Breen are literally wiping out one half...doesn't that make you think the other half maybe might be in cohorts with the Breen? There's no reason why the Breen will be on one planet and not the other. It's like the Trisolarians hitting a colonized, terraformed Mars but leaving Earth alone (or the other way around).

I think it would had been a bit better if, admittedly, cliche if that civilization had either gone full fascist and warmongering and attacked the cerritos with stuff like primitive antimatter munitions or stuff they brought from the ferengi or slavers, like they've turned into a sort of Kongo or Dahomey Kingdom, an elite literally selling their lessers for material gain and support.

Like they're just stewing, waiting, the Cerritos comes down to an abandoned, war torn city with evidence of war and slavery and then some dictator pops up on a screen somewhere. Mwahhaha, the Federation! Time for our revenge!

 

[Kraig]

I hope it's OK to ask this: Who was that woman with Mariner at the end of the episode?

The archaeologist girl from episode 6.

I think you mean Episode 5. At the end of the episode Beckett Mariner is completing her mission log and is contacted by the archaeologist from the Collector's Guild.

 

[Wouter]

I think you're right, though I think it was more of a setup than you suggest. If Starfleet knew the Breen were there, then they would know that they would attack. The whole thing seems like a plan to discredit and get rid of the California-class and create good publicity for the Texas-class drone ships. I have to wonder just how much of a "Good friend" Admiral Buenamigo is. I wouldn't be surprised if he's really a Section 31 agent.

I agree with this line of reasoning. It looks suspiciously like Buenamigo was already aware of the status of both planets, and purposefully played Freeman's buttons to make her, her ship and maybe the whole class of ships/Second contact missions look bad.

The automated vessel was there at exactly the right moment, and it got coverage from a reporter who can show the difference between the performance of both Starfleet vessels. I suspect Buenamigo wants budget to be transferred from the Callie fleet to the unmanned ships.

 

[Dukhat]

Except for the part where they sent a distress call, were willing to take aid/repair of their ships, and one side was clearly being lied to by the other. Shockingly, the people who didn't want him involved were the ones carrying out crime.

And again, none of that was Picard’s business.

 

[Charles Phipps]

And again, none of that was Picard’s business.

And same as the Devil taking over the planet in that episode. Most of Star Trek would not exist with the Enterprise not trying to help where it can.

As for symbosis, a lot of us feel like Picard is wrong yet can't discern why, or that what we would do, Picard won't do. If we saw two nations abusing each other like that...would we really intervene? The world is full of the minor and regional powers stomping all over each other, economically, politically, militarily.

I mean, in RL there's plenty of examples of intervening both for good and ill. Right now, rhymes with Wookaine.

But I actually note that the episode seems pretty condemnatory of Picard rather than supporting his decision. Yes, the planet of drug addicts eventually fixed themselves but the implication was that it was after a decade and a half of horrific civil war as well as other consequences. They also want nothing to do with the Federation, which implies to me that they really do blame Picard and company for their callousness.

 

[Kraig]

I agree with this line of reasoning. It looks suspiciously like Buenamigo was already aware of the status of both planets, and purposefully played Freeman's buttons to make her, her ship and maybe the whole class of ships/Second contact missions look bad.

The automated vessel was there at exactly the right moment, and it got coverage from a reporter who can show the difference between the performance of both Starfleet vessels. I suspect Buenamigo wants budget to be transferred from the Callie fleet to the unmanned ships.

I sense an M-5 type episode in the near future.

 

[jackoverfull]

I enjoyed this episode a great deal.

But Freeman... boy did she screw things up. And I figured Beckett was gonna end up with the archologist somehow. Can't wait to see how things get resolved in the season finale.

On a side note: I don't care for this episode absolving Picard's action on Onaras. What he did was cruel just so that he could uphold his sacrosanct view of the Prime Directive. He left that entire planet to go through a severe withdrawal without medical aide. And withdrawl is the most dangerous aspect of coming off a substance, particularly opioids and alcohol.

This episode glosses over all that, saying they went through some "dark period". As a substance abuse survivor, I didn't appreciate this aspect of the episode. And while I like "Symbosis," as it's an indictment on Big Pharma in hindsight, I still side with Beverly. Picard's non-solution was inhumane.

I tend to agree. While his decision to not help the continuation of the exploitation was correct, some federation help in the transition period could have saved a lot of lives.
It’s interesting to see that Starfleet is totally fine in providing such aid now, 17 years too late!

The only thing that hurts is that Mariner and Jennifer broke up. They were cute together

Very true, I hope they make up.

Not a counter-argument per se, but I noted that the Onarans were very passive-aggressive towards Starfleet.

true, but it’s hard to blame them.

And, it seems like they traded one form of addiction for another.

true as well, at least circumstantially. But at least it’s an healthier one!

 

[fireproof78]

This was a great episode! It turns out that Beckett has grown over the series while her mother hasn't, and it comes to bite her mother in the ass in the end. We'll see how or if it all resolves next episode, but it was well done, IMO. The only thing that hurts is that Mariner and Jennifer broke up. They were cute together.

I think Mariner still has some self-work to do before doing a relationship.

 

[valkyrie013]

So, bad admiral..
He was pooping on Freeman many episodes ago, and just happened to be her sponsor for her idea.. Yeah
He knew the breen were there, knew the Ceritos was screwed, had that FNN girl there to record the Texas class .. All a set up. And probably Rutherfords bad admiral..

Kind of wish Becky jumped ship an episode of 2 ago so we can see her with Indy Jones for more than 5 minutes.

 

[Dukhat]

And same as the Devil taking over the planet in that episode. Most of Star Trek would not exist with the Enterprise not trying to help where it can.

What devil?

But I actually note that the episode seems pretty condemnatory of Picard rather than supporting his decision. Yes, the planet of drug addicts eventually fixed themselves but the implication was that it was after a decade and a half of horrific civil war as well as other consequences. They also want nothing to do with the Federation, which implies to me that they really do blame Picard and company for their callousness.

I didn’t get that impression. I thought they were happy to see Starfleet but simply had no use for their help. They got over their problem by themselves, just like Picard had originally hoped. Yes, they pointed out the suffering they had to go through in order to get better, but it didn’t seem like they were blaming Picard or Starfleet for that. Besides, it’s not like Starfleet were the ones taking advantage of them; it was the Brekkians (whom they interestingly didn’t even mention.) Of course it’s intentionally vague because the writers were trying to retcon that Picard did something bad when he didn’t.

 

[jackoverfull]

I'm glad to see that not everything is squeaky-clean perfect in every corner of the Federation.

I’m not: how it’s represented, with really dirty stuff and apparently dumb people really comes across as not very Trek to me.

(Like Migleemo or something).

Wasn’t he sweet tough, calling his mimo?

Missed joke: Freeman asking him to wear a uniform while on the bridge to keep a more formal appearance while the reporter is there.

I honestly thought the whole 'secret Breen incursion' felt rather contrived here though - and the automated savior ship showed up rather fast, so meh on that bit.

True. But I suspect there will be more to this.

Also, I have a feeling the whole fully automated Texas Class will be back, and controlled by Peanut Hamper and maybe AGIMUS <--- one ship of the Class each

Indeed.

They first retcon his actions to say that Picard deliberately blocked communication between the two planets

I missed this.
Still, did they have any form of communication available once the last ship fails? I guess old-fashioned radio, which would have some minutes/hours delay but could still be viable…

Generally, it's because he knew about a crime and aided and abetted it by not informing one of the other's criminal activities.

Indeed. And imagine the despair of the population once the “cure” stopped arriving.

Then WHY did a Federation ship respond to the distress call on a non-warp capable ship?
^^^
If the non-interfereance PD applies to those two planets, it should apply to anyone/anything OF or FROM those two planets

from that and many more episodes, I believe there are multiple levels of the Prime Directive, going from total non interference to simply not sharing certain technologies. For example Janeway has no trouble in dealing openly with many space-faring races in the Delta Quadrant, but won’t sell them replicator technology.

My impression was the two races were warp capable but just barely. Warp 1 vessels between both worlds. Which isn't brought up in the episode but within the parameters of the Prime Directive.

You don’t need warp to travel between two planets in the same system, a fraction of impulse power will do nicely.

the LMAO (but also let me see it!)
"This is the biggest crew night of the year, not including pon farrs."

yeah, what goes on during Pom farrs?!

 

[fireproof78]

yeah, what goes on during Pom farrs?!

A wedding...

...or a hanging.

Either way we're going to have a lot of fun.

 

[jackoverfull]

If they're both in the same system and the Breen are literally wiping out one half...doesn't that make you think the other half maybe might be in cohorts with the Breen? There's no reason why the Breen will be on one planet and not the other. It's like the Trisolarians hitting a colonized, terraformed Mars but leaving Earth alone (or the other way around).

Planets are big things and the breen were there with only three ships.

I didn’t get that impression. I thought they were happy to see Starfleet but simply had no use for their help

they really seemed to want them to leave.

 

[Charles Phipps]

You don’t need warp to travel between two planets in the same system, a fraction of impulse power will do nicely.

Yes and yet if they weren't warp capable, I feel it would have been brought up once or twice. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[Charles Phipps]

What devil?

"Devil's Due"

 

[Farscape One]

Planets are big things and the breen were there with only three ships.
they really seemed to want them to leave.

Considering that system has two planets that are way outclassed by a single Breen ship, 3 is plenty.

 

[drt]

The Ornarans had transporter technology, which seems like something that should have been post warp development. However, “Symbiosis” gave the impression that they only had sublight travel.

Considering it was a first season TNG episode I don’t think the whole “warp capable” thing had been established yet. I suppose we could consider that possession of other advanced technologies also can be taken into consideration for first contact.

 

[Charles Phipps]

The Ornarans had transporter technology, which seems like something that should have been post warp development. However, “Symbiosis” gave the impression that they only had sublight travel.

Considering it was a first season TNG episode I don’t think the whole “warp capable” thing had been established yet. I suppose we could consider that possession of other advanced technologies also can be taken into consideration for first contact.

I suppose my view was that they had Warp Travel but everything they needed to get was from the planet closest to them. Mind you, I didn't think they were in the same system until this episode either.