Unseen TOS....

[Warped9]

I think there could be something of a pulp sf feel to this design—something like one might see on a sf book cover or magazine back in the day. And I don’t think thats a bad thing given I’m trying to avoid any post TOS influences, not only Trek wise but sci-fi and real world wise as well.

Outside of the episode the only suggestion as to what these ships could look like was James Blish’s adaptation in a reference to the Romulans’ “crazy little cylindrical ships.” “Cylindrical” can be a generalization rather than a specific description. The front half of this ship is essentially a half cylinder with a tapered bow, rather like an upside down boat. Then I added the tail—a visual cue tying it to the familiar BoP from the episode. I am imagining missile launchers and targeting hardware in the nose given Spock’s reference to “primitive” atomic weapons. That said I also envision laser weaponry as part of the armament.

Furthermore a missile that would fragment upon detonation could also be an effective weapon against unshielded ships. And unlike in TOS I don’t see these ships engaging in combat at warp speeds. All combat maneuvering would be restricted to sublight speeds.

 

[Warped9]

Put some of the parts together for another snapshot of progress. I think it has something of a pulp sci-fi look to it. It should look less airplane like (from some angles) when I get the pods added to the end of the wings. The nose is meant to house missile launchers and bulky laser emitters.



I might opt to make the "wings" a bit wider.

 

[aridas sofia]

I like it. It is distinctive and very much has your own style about it.

 

[Warped9]

I think there are echoes of the classic sci-fi rocketship to it. In the TOS style there are essentially simple familiar shapes tweaked to look somehow unfamiliar. There is an echo of a 1950’s/‘60’s jet plane with the air intake in the nose, but repurposed as a weapons pod.

I definitely wanted something that looked less evolved and less elegant than the familiar Romulan BoP yet still retained its own integrity and its own vibe. It’s meant to play on James Blish’s generalized description of “their crazy little cylindrical ships.” Nowhere in the episode or in any script draft I’ve seen is there any description of what the century old Romulan ships were supposed to look like other than being painted like birds of prey. So Blish was adding his own idea into the adaptation, but it’s a detail I think works so why not go with it?


It’s interesting to ponder the backstory of the Romulans as Dianne Duane did in her book The Romulan Way, based solely on what little was revealed in TOS.

Vulcan recorded history goes back a long way, possibly further than Earth’s. But questions do arise.
- Was Vulcan more lush and “green” way, way back, but became more desert like over time? Do there remain more lush areas on the planet even though the Vulcans seem to prefer the drier conditions?
- Are the Vulcans actually native to the planet, naturally evolving there, or were they seeded there by an ancient race such as the Preservers or Sargon’s people in the distant past? Even Spock wonders about this in “Return To Tomorrow.”
- Are the Romulans really descendants of ancient Vulcans who left Vulcan as Surak’s reformation was taking hold, or could the Romulans simply be a seeded offshoot of the ancient Vulcans? Nothing in TOS really clarifies this. If the Romulans left Vulcan on their own then their level of space flight technology is truly stunted after so many centuries. They appear true isolationists within their own system(s) until being surprised when encountering Earth ships.
- The idea of Romulan spies in Federation space is not implausible, but the familiar BoP is evidence of either Federation security being really good and/or Romulan spies being ineffective. Or maybe there were no spies and the Romulans simply didn’t advance as well as Earth and the Federation. At best the Romulans might have had low resolution long range scans of Earth/Federation ships across the Neutral Zone and based their estimations of their enemies’ capabilities on that.
- Despite Spock’s assertion that neither enemy has ever seen other I find that highly unlikely. Even Blish contradicts this. It’s possible Earth forces did indeed salvage perhaps a few Romulan derelicts and did learn what the Romulans looked like, but for some reason chose to keep it secret. I think it’s highly likely Romulans did capture or salvage some Earth ships and learned something about humans. It could well be the Romulans rejected outright any visual communications and permitted audio only.

 

[aridas sofia]

I think it makes no sense to postulate that that no Romulans were found floating among ship wreckage, or encountered in the century afterwards. I think it more sensible to imply the story of the Romulans was suppressed to hold the infant alliance together.

 

[Warped9]

Further conjecture.

Just as I think the Romulans did have some form of FTL drive in “Balance Of Terror” I think they must have had at least rudimentary FTL a century earlier. Otherwise the years long war was being fought practically on the Romulans front yard. For the war to drag on the Romulans had to have been able to strike into Earth territory in terms of Earth and allied worlds’ outposts and colony worlds.

 

[publiusr]

Now I could see this craft circling Masao's Cabbage class---being attached to it and the Cabbage being a carrier....

Ringships would always come first so as to patch into a Slaver network of space lanes that could boost the speed of any nacelle ship that came later.

The declaration ringship I would have used as the Ion craft in Spock's Brain remaster.

 

[Warped9]

Small detail change. I've raked the edges of the wing five degrees more forward (so now the leading edge is now 40 rather than 45 degrees and the trailing edge is now 25 rather than 30). I have also narrowed the wing just a smidge. As such I will not be lengthening the wings as I suggested earlier I might.

Later it will be interesting to design an avian creature with swept back wings on the underside of the craft. I'm also envisioning this ship as something rather submarine like inside with cramped interiors. That was also suggested in "Balance Of Terror" where the BoP was certainly not as spacious as the Enterprise. This century old vessel might be only about 5-7 decks thick.

 

[publiusr]

The BoP art seemed to suggest a headless bird with an eye stalk. No one has fleshed that out. Mouth between feathers like the Norris-THING maybe.

I like the Cardinal or Hummingbird wings:
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.170307

Not as cool as the TOS deal…but fine here.
Maybe the Hawker Harrier Jump Jet exhaust:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrier_Jump_Jet#/media/File:Hawker_P.1127_‘XP831’_(19253036156).jpg

—Except it has landing gear…suggesting legs. Simple vent in front of nose gear.

I could see in kneeling with the forward weapons moving out of the nose as a field piece.

 

[Atolm]

Small detail change. I've raked the edges of the wing five degrees more forward (so now the leading edge is now 40 rather than 45 degrees and the trailing edge is now 25 rather than 30). I have also narrowed the wing just a smidge. As such I will not be lengthening the wings as I suggested earlier I might.

Later it will be interesting to design an avian creature with swept back wings on the underside of the craft. I'm also envisioning this ship as something rather submarine like inside with cramped interiors. That was also suggested in "Balance Of Terror" where the BoP was certainly not as spacious as the Enterprise. This century old vessel might be only about 5-7 decks thick.

Very cool!!! The only thing mesh wise I'd enhance would be the blending of to the hull, especially the trailing edge of the pylon to the hull. Making it more of a blended lifting body rather than just "pylons" by adding a nice curve there would add to your predatory bird feel.. I'm know you are not done with the mesh so far, and I do not mean to add my "2-cents"...it is just an observation that may enhance the overall feel of your design.
As for a "stooping" Bird on her belly...I've done it before, so this may be of some help:
https://www.deviantart.com/atolmazel/art/Romulan-TOS-Interceptor-01-793211123

 

[Atolm]

Oh this is what I was alluding to with the mesh:

It might unify your vision a bit more. Again, just a suggestion, I do not mean to step on your goals.

 

[Warped9]

I envision a lot of details wherein I then have to weigh whether it would look right on a design done in that era for TOS—how likely is it Matt Jefferies or Wah Chang would have done something like this or that given the influences and resources they had at hand?

It’s tricky and I’m certainly not likely to get right all the time. The best I can do is go for something that feels right, that looks like it could have been done then rather than retconning contemporary ideas and perspectives into a fifty year old body of work.

There is also a degree of detail that becomes rather pointless given the application a miniature or image will be used for. If a design will be seen only as an image on a screen then too much detail is extra work for nothing that simply won’t show up on the television, at least the televisions of the day. Same with a miniature. Ideally all the show’s miniatures would have been at least as detailed as the Enterprise, but that wasn’t realistic. Hell, even the Enterprise wasn’t quite as detailed (having unfinished surfaces not really visible to the camera) as it should have been. Both the Klingon battle cruiser and particularly the Romulan Warbird also could have used more detail to flesh them out.

I do have a conceit in this project in adding a bit more detail than would likely have been done back in the day. But I always try to maintain that distinct overall aesthetic and vibe TOS had.


I’m also toying with another idea—an earlier predecessor to this design. Something that could look almost comically devolved as the first ships the Rimulans sent out against Earth ships.

 

[trynda1701]

It’s interesting to ponder the backstory of the Romulans as Dianne Duane did in her book The Romulan Way, based solely on what little was revealed in TOS.

Vulcan recorded history goes back a long way, possibly further than Earth’s. But questions do arise.
- Was Vulcan more lush and “green” way, way back, but became more desert like over time?

Oddly enough, Duanes' other book "Spocks World" has alternating chapters in the present (the main story), and chapters set in Vulcans distant past. One of those mentions that Vulcan WAS lusher in the past as primative Vulcans came together as larger groups, but one of the stars had a MASSIVE flare that resulted in the more arid terrain mainly shown on screen before the book came out in 1988 (TOS, TAS, TMP, ST III & IV).

Liking what I'm seeing with the design. I think a beak over the nose weapons MIGHT have been thought of by Jeffries and Chang, but also evokes later FASA designs.

One thought, with your current design, what might it look like with forward swept wings? If a basic model, or even sketch for Spocks science station screen had been done, you'd still have a more primitive design, but a subtle tie in to the actually built model shown attacking Outpost 4.

 

[trynda1701]

Without some kind of wing like structure then painting a vessel “like a giant bird of prey” would amount to putting an illustration of the bird on the hull. It’s interesting the Romulans feel compelled to be that elaborate for vessels that could easily be destroyed in large numbers—seems like a lot of pointless work for something that wouldn’t be seen easily except up close.

Perhaps these ships, not being overly large, are also capable of atmospheric flight. In that event then the elaborate paint scheme would be be more visible to admirers, and victims, on the ground.

I'm sure I read something about that intimidation factor for the TOS Bird of Prey, it might have been in a story in the "Enterprise Incidents" fanzine.

 

[Warped9]

One thought, with your current design, what might it look like with forward swept wings? If a basic model, or even sketch for Spocks science station screen had been done, you'd still have a more primitive design, but a subtle tie in to the actually built model shown attacking Outpost 4.

I actually did initially sketch it with swept forward struts—I didn’t hate it, but I didn’t love it either. Also I figured the elongated fin was enough to tie it in with the later TOS BoP design.

That said I have envisioned variations on this design and it’s feasible a later revised version could have swept forward struts along with other details I considered.

In my own head canon I imagine this design as the second or third major ship design the Romulans adopt to combat Earth’s forces. The first design is the more rudimentary idea I mentioned upthread—I’m tempted to try fleshing out that idea.

 

[caveat_imperator]

Further conjecture.

Just as I think the Romulans did have some form of FTL drive in “Balance Of Terror” I think they must have had at least rudimentary FTL a century earlier. Otherwise the years long war was being fought practically on the Romulans front yard. For the war to drag on the Romulans had to have been able to strike into Earth territory in terms of Earth and allied worlds’ outposts and colony worlds.

I think a ship could go FTL with impulse drive for interstellar travel, but would be dealing with time dilation (the "time barrier" mentioned in 'The Cage') more compared with using warp drive.

 

[Warped9]

I suspect the main battles would be closer to Romulan systems given their slower ships. Earth, and Vulcan, would be too far away for the Romulans to strike directly. So they have to be content with striking Earth outposts and colonies as well as disrupting shipping lanes.

However, it’s entirely possible the Romulans could attempt striking Earth directly, assuming they managed to learn Earth’s location. With more primitive detection systems a large attack fleet in the vastness of interstellar space could be a serious challenge to detect and intercept. With long life spans, and dedication, a protracted interstellar flight wouldn’t be a serious deterrent for the Romulans. Indeed they could certainly be committed enough to accept it as a one-way suicide campaign given an impossibly long supply line.

 

[Warped9]

Small steps.

 

[Warped9]

What we have here is a rough approximation of the deck layout. I often do this with my designs to give me a fair idea of how I can space out my windows for an added touch of credibility. As can be seen not all the decks are the same height. The topmost level is the command deck where the control centre or bridge would be located as well as other command level facilities. The central level would most likely be the main engineering deck where most of engineering facilities would be located towards the aft and the main weapons systems set forward. The lowest level would be much of the support systems including a hangar bay facility.



The black lines represent approximate hull or deck thickness. The white areas represent main habitable areas. Yellow represents accesible areas. Blue represents not generally accessible areas.

Average deck thicknees is about 18 inches. Four of the decks are meant to be maybe 8.5 ft. in height excluding bulky overhead conduits and machinery. I could tighten those decks to be perhaps 8 ft. in height. the taller decks are 12.5 ft., excluding overhead machinery, but could be lower as well.

I have the time to indulge in giving such considerations a bit more detailed thought whereas back in the day they probably would be winging it more.

 

[Henoch]

What we have here is a rough approximation of the deck layout. I often do this with my designs to give me a fair idea of how I can space out my windows for an added touch of credibility.

Shame "they" didn't do this for the TOS Enterprise...