Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x08 - "The Elysian Kingdom"

[jackoverfull]

Final saw this, loved most of it but the ending: M’benga really decided to trust into an alien entity that could have been manipulating him all the time?

Also, how do they know that it just “formed itself”? Wouldn’t it be more probable that it evolved from a previous corporeal life form, just like the countless energy entities in previous Trek?

anyway, everyone seemed to have great fun and the set dressings were awesome. 8, perhaps a bit less but let’s go by 8.

And I FINALLY can understand M’benga when he talks! No idea what they did, but his pronunciation is much less incomprehensible now.

 

[Amaris]

Final saw this, loved most of it but the ending: M’benga really decided to trust into an alien entity that could have been manipulating him all the time?

Also, how do they know that it just “formed itself”? Wouldn’t it be more probable that it evolved from a previous corporeal life form, just like the countless energy entities in previous Trek?

anyway, everyone seemed to have great fun and the set dressings were awesome. 8, perhaps a bit less but let’s go by 8.

And I FINALLY can understand M’benga when he talks! No idea what they did, but his pronunciation is much less incomprehensible now.

Boltzmann brains form spontaneously.

 

[Athena28]

Well, that’s 2 out of the 8 I disliked. Pretty good odds, so far.

 

[jackoverfull]

Boltzmann brains form spontaneously.

so it seems. But how does Hemmer knows this entity is one of those and not one of the many in Star Trek that didn’t?

 

[Captrek]

Boltzmann brains form spontaneously.

A Boltzmann brain isn’t something you’re going to stumble across in our galaxy, but whatever.

 

[Amaris]

so it seems. But how does Hemmer knows this entity is one of those and not one of the many in Star Trek that didn’t?

Hemmer's telepathic. He was able to sense that the entity was coming from somewhere in the nebula. Then, in engineering, he uses the computer to scan the nebula: "When I scan the nebula, I find evidence of a singular lifeform, including brain activity, but there is no sign of a physical body."

Some back and forth between himself and M'Benga, and he posits the notion that it may be a Boltzmann brain.

A Boltzmann brain isn’t something you’re going to stumble across in our galaxy, but whatever.

How many "Q" have we discovered?

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Final saw this, loved most of it but the ending: M’benga really decided to trust into an alien entity that could have been manipulating him all the time?

If I was on the writing team, I'd suggest eliminating the entity entirely. The nebula is simply a nature phenomena that acted as a catalyst. Being in the buffer made Rukiya vulnerable, kind of like Kirk getting split in two during transport.

That takes the ethical question out of it, gives us the same heartwarming ending, removes any choice, and allows M'Benga to witness the birth of a goddess.

The phenomena would be a one-use only kind of event. The birth used it up, precluding any future attempt to make a new god. Kind of like Where No Man Has Gone Before, except you couldn't just send another ship there and create another Gary Mitchell.

ETA: Oh, and M'Benga stays on but is demoted for keeping his daughter in the buffer secretly. A certain Dr. Phillip Boyce is appointed Chief Medical Officer, and is asked to keep an eye on him.

 

[Belz...]

so it seems. But how does Hemmer knows this entity is one of those and not one of the many in Star Trek that didn’t?

The script told him so.

 

[Captrek]

ETA: Oh, and M'Benga stays on but is demoted for keeping his daughter in the buffer secretly. A certain Dr. Phillip Boyce is appointed Chief Medical Officer, and is asked to keep an eye on him.

“The Cage” happened years ago. Boyce has already been here and gone. He’s probably retired.

None of which precluded McCoy being brought back to the Enterprise, admittedly.

 

[fireproof78]

ETA: Oh, and M'Benga stays on but is demoted for keeping his daughter in the buffer secretly. A certain Dr. Phillip Boyce is appointed Chief Medical Officer, and is asked to keep an eye on him.

You're thinking of Dr. Piper.

 

[Mudd]

I liked the whole Boltzman Brain thing.

 

[Mr Awe]

My mileage definitely varies.

And that's totally fair, of course!

I'm just pointing out one of the reasons why the dramatic decision at the end didn't work for me. But I'm glad it worked for you and many others!

 

[LaxScrutiny]

“The Cage” happened years ago. Boyce has already been here and gone. He’s probably retired.

None of which precluded McCoy being brought back to the Enterprise, admittedly.

You're thinking of Dr. Piper.

You're absolutely right. I've been watching the series as though The Cage hasn't happened yet, but as you've pointed out, it has. (Probably alluded to, but I'm old. I still get it up but some things slip by.) Still, slot in the next appropriate Chief Medical Officer here. We know M'Benga remains on board, but not in that capacity. Use the episode story to make sense of that.

 

[fireproof78]

You're absolutely right. I've been watching the series as though it hasn't happened yet, but as you've pointed out, it has. Still, slot in the next appropriate Chief Medical Officer here. We know M'Benga remains on board, but not in that capacity. Use the episode story to make sense of that.

He's assigned elsewhere. McCoy's more senior and takes that role and retains it.

It doesn't need much, if at all.

 

[Mr Awe]

I liked the whole Boltzman Brain thing.

I wasn't sure how/why they jumped straight to that deduction? Seems like it would be safer and more logical for the characters to say it was an energy entity, but they didn't claim to know how it originated. That's been the usual ST approach with this type of entity. In contrast, a Boltzmann brain has a specific kind of origin, spontaneously forming through random fluctuations with a complete memory of the universe.

A Boltzmann brain doesn't have to be a non-corporeal entity too. A human could a Boltzmann brain.

I'm just not sure how the characters made that leap or why that concept was included. It doesn't pose a problem to the story. Maybe they just wanted to include an interesting idea in the show?

 

[Amaris]

I wasn't sure how/why they jumped straight to that deduction? Seems like it would be safer and more logical for the characters to say it was an energy entity, but they didn't claim to know how it originated. That's been the usual ST approach with this type of entity. In contrast, a Boltzmann brain has a specific kind of origin, spontaneously forming through random fluctuations with a complete memory of the universe.

A Boltzmann brain doesn't have to be a non-corporeal entity too. A human could a Boltzmann brain.

I'm just not sure how the characters made that leap or why that concept was included. It doesn't pose a problem to the story. Maybe they just wanted to include an interesting idea in the show?

I figure it was a new idea kind of thing. I mean, the show is "Strange New Worlds," and that would include concepts people have never heard about before, which I think is cool when they can squeeze them in there. Back in the days of TOS, the Enterprise was sent back in time because of a "black star." Most people had no idea black holes existed then, so it was something new and exciting to explore, at least as an idea.

 

[Mr Awe]

I figure it was a new idea kind of thing. I mean, the show is "Strange New Worlds," and that would include concepts people have never heard about before, which I think is cool when they can squeeze them in there. Back in the days of TOS, the Enterprise was sent back in time because of a "black star." Most people had no idea black holes existed then, so it was something new and exciting to explore, at least as an idea.

Definitely could be that. We're discussing it, proving it's a thought-provoking idea. Additional SNW benefits--promotes thinking and a sense of wonder!

 

[LaxScrutiny]

He's assigned elsewhere. McCoy's more senior and takes that role and retains it.

It doesn't need much, if at all.

I thought I had already acknowledged that. Must be the Alzheimer's. I acknowledge your observation.

 

[fireproof78]

I thought I had already acknowledged that. Must be the Alzheimer's. I acknowledge your observation.

Acknowledgement observed.

 

[dupersuper]

People moaning about accents is so incredibly American.
Ye can be such a strange bunch when it comes to stuff like this.

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But I'm more interested in what it means in universe. So benny was a real person in universe....but clearly couldn't have written Deep Space Nine?!

Maybe the prophets showed Ben snippets of his ancestor's life. He may have even still looked the same (a'la the Soongs, Worf and his grandfather, Laris and her ancestor, Gul Dukat and his cousin, etc.). Think of all the people in the years after the Bell riots posting about how much Gabriel Bell looked like a classic sci-fi author...

What happened to Runa at the end? Did she return to the nothingness from which Debra conjured her?

I guess she’s playing with the fantasy women from Deja Q.

Lucky bitch...

You're absolutely right. I've been watching the series as though The Cage hasn't happened yet, but as you've pointed out, it has. (Probably alluded to, but I'm old. I still get it up but some things slip by.)

Not in this show, but we see Veena and the Talosians again in Discovery season 2.