Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x07 - "The Serene Squall"

[Sci]

So, Spock didn’t tell Kirk or Bones about Sybok but he told Chapel because he felt guilty about kissing her? He also didn’t tell Kirk or Bones that Sarek was his father but it was common knowledge when Pike was in command. Some funky little retconning here.

I dunno, I think it's plausible that Spock might decide to be much more tight-lipped about his personal life as he gets older, particularly if something happens over the course of SNW that he perceives (rightly or wrongly) as happening because he was too open.

Edited to add: SNW's version of Mister Spock is more openly emotional than TOS's version, but it strikes me that this is broadly consistent with "The Cage," which established a young Spock who was more emotional than he was in TOS. I think Spock's journey in SNW will involve him becoming less accepting of his Human heritage and more embracing of his Vulcan heritage before TOS starts and reverses that process, with Spock finally reaching an equilibrium of sorts between his Vulcan and Human heritages after mind-melding with V'Ger in TMP. End edit.

I dunno, putting such a focus on Spock and T’Pring thru the whole season seems like a weird thread to pull from TOS considering it won’t be resolved “in-universe” for another 6-7 years.

I mean, I think it's pretty clear that one way or the other, the Spock/T'Pring arc will end with them being alienated from one-another but being stuck, for one reason or another, with a betrothal neither ones but which both hope they can avoid consummating if Spock does not experience pon farr. It will be a de facto breakup and the events of "Amok Time" will become a coda to the arc. Hard to see where else the arc can end since the status quo at the start of "Amok Time" was Spock hoping he would never have to marry her and T'Pring literally deciding she'd rather Spock die than marry him.

 

[Midquest]

Having watched it again, a few thoughts:

+ I am delighted with the establishing shot of the rehabilitation center in the episode's final scene. What gorgeous production design and realization. That's just the sort of image that made me freeze episodes of TOS just to study the sci-fi splendor on screen.

+ I found Keitel magnetic in both roles. Wonderful work, and here as in each episode so far, I love that there's real effort to create thematic throughlines across the subplots of each episode. Angel may have been the villain, but their final message about thinking beyond binaries was nicely multilayered.

+ I'll also say that, as a queer man, it's interesting to see a queer-identifying villain that doesn't vilify queerness, as was often true in the past. Are we turning a corner in the breadth and nuance of queer roles on screen? At least within the scope of this franchise, I feel they've perhaps shown their dedication to representation in a way that allows them to create a role like this and have it feel like a diversification of queer roles within the franchise and not commentary on queerness as villainy, as it might have ended up being in the past. Does that make sense?

+ I find myself rooting for Spock and T'Pring and Spock and Chapel. I only hope that they find a way to creatively close out these relationships, when such time comes, in a way that gives both T'Pring and Chapel a satisfying ending. Strictly speaking, don't we have the insinuation that Spock eventually marries, but not who? I'm curious what narrative possibilities they have here.

+ They aren't being precious with character exploration. Before the show, I'd imagined they'd advance these characters more slowly, stretching out their narratives to give them something to do until TOS, but no. It's full speed ahead on character development, and I love it. Though it almost feels like they might run over TOS in terms of character progression? If so, fine by me...

+...and on that note, I'll also say it again: I'm glad they seem comfortable reinterpreting bits of TOS as needed to tell their story, and more power to them to keep doing it.

+ Also, a shout out to Michael Hough as the faux captain. I thought he was a lot of fun.

This is one of my favorites of the season. I adore the lunacy of this show and the great heart it injects into the proceedings.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

THEY'VE RE-CANONIZED STAR TREK V - YOU BASTARDS!
10/10

Roddenberry is spinning in his space urn

 

[Tracy Trek]

I really like this episode. I gave it a ten.

Does Capt. Angel have a connection with Sybok since she's trying to rescue him?

 

[Sci]

I really like this episode. I gave it a ten.

Does Capt. Angel have a connection with Sybok since she's trying to rescue him?

It would appear that Angel and Sybok were lovers, and that they are attempting to rescue Sybok from Vulcan authorities.

 

[AlanC9]

I hate to be That Guy, but I had to knock this one down a full point for the incoherence about communications. It's two days to talk to Starfleet, but they've got real-time comms with T'Pring's facility? At least TOS had the decency not to have things work two different ways in the same episode. Couldn't they have at least put in something about the pirates having their own relay buoys?

Still, there was a lot to like in this episode, which Isn't really meant to be taken too seriously.(I did not expect the comedy ratio to be quite this high in SNW.) Saw the Angel twist coming a mile off, but we were supposed to. And the escape played fair with us -- we all saw her escape ship long before it came into play.

Concerning the talk about representation upthread, somehow I completely missed that aspect. I know Keitel from Big Sky, but I thought she was just playing a cis role.

Still not sure recanonizing ST 5 is a great idea. I guess they'll have to do something with Sybok now.

 

[Muji]

I hate to be That Guy, but I had to knock this one down a full point for the incoherence about communications. It's two days to talk to Starfleet, but they've got real-time comms with T'Pring's facility?

How far were they from Starfleet HQ and how far were they from T'Pring's facility? If we don't know this, it's hard to make accurate calls about how long it would have taken.

Still not sure recanonizing ST 5 is a great idea.

Erm, was there some de-canonisation that I didn't hear about?

 

[Sakonna]

Chapel doesn't remind me at all of TOS Chapel but I love that character so much I don't really care.

I am definitely experiencing Chapel's arc to be as tragic as Pike's. This version of the character is incredible and such a delight, I actually think she's my favorite in the cast.

And life is going to break her down until she's the woman we meet on TOS. That is so sad.

Was that a Reman punching Pike and messing up his hair?

I wondered that too! Hope so, I love a good background alien cameo...

The ink on Angels's face is evocative of an eyepatch, isn't it?

I thought those were alien markings, but now I'm wondering if the intent was actually human-with-face-tattoo...

Wondering if Sybok might reappear as the antagonist in a two-part finale.

I hope they're doing that Lower Decks stealth-serialization thing where many elements from the season crescendo in the finale. Sybok/Gorn team-up!

 

[Therin of Andor]

My understanding was that when the franchise was still split between two owners, the TV writers couldn't reference anything to do with the films (and vice versa, which explains Kelvin-verse.)

That has been refuted many times.

 

[FreezeC77]

I actually stayed up late for this one instead of catching it this morning. Couple of points I missed in my first post:

1. Use of the prefix codes, although Number One calls them something different- nice callback.
2. Is this first time we see Spock use the nerve pinch in this series?
3. Hits on the nacelles should affect warp drive, not impulse.

4. Sybok. Ugh. And why is T'Pring showing up every other episode?

Obviously, we'll see Angel again as a recurring villain, in the spirit of Harry Mudd.

For being at the edge of federation space she sure does have an easy time getting to them.

 

[Belz...]

It matters.

To some people, and not to others, and sometimes for different reasons. Generalising helps no one.

But when you haven't had it, it's wonderful because you see some part of yourself reflected in something you love.

For people for whom seeing themselves reflected is important, absolutely. I will not assume that everyone has the same priorities as I.

 

[Sci]

How far were they from Starfleet HQ and how far were they from T'Pring's facility? If we don't know this, it's hard to make accurate calls about how long it would have taken.

It kind of beggars belief to imagine that Vulcan would maintain a criminal rehabilitation facility far away from a Starfleet starbase at the edge of Federation space. That would be like the State of California maintaining a prison out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

Erm, was there some de-canonisation that I didn't hear about?

No. There was widespread agreement that TFF and its elements were bad and a seeming decision to avoid acknowledging these elements in subsequent productions, but Paramount never removed it from the ST canon.

 

[Mudd]

ST V has always been canon - GR saying it might be otherwise was irrelevant to that.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

So, Spock didn’t tell Kirk or Bones about Sybok but he told Chapel because he felt guilty about kissing her?

And that he trusts her, values her advice, has feelings for her, owes her for helping him and T'Pring get out of a pinch, and since he is a patient of hers on the Enterprise anything personal he tells her may fall under doctor/patient confidentiality.

He also didn’t tell Kirk or Bones that Sarek was his father but it was common knowledge when Pike was in command. Some funky little retconning here.

Common knowledge on the ship at that time perhaps, not necessarily common knowledge to the public. Maybe Spock and Sarek still maintain some contact during this time and Sarek has visited the ship. Maybe Spock is not yet so angry at him to conceal their relationship from others, even his friends. Maybe T'Pring mentioned it in her many visits to the ship.

There's no reason that information would have to be accessible in a crew bio for Kirk's Enterprise if Spock didn't want it to be.

 

[Belz...]

ST V has always been canon - GR saying it might be otherwise was irrelevant to that.

Indeed. An episode or movie being bad doesn't make it not canon. Of course the inconsistencies therein can cause issues, but that's the nature of such franchises.

Much is made of the Enterprise going to the centre of the galaxy so quickly, and the generally poor plotting, but at least in terms of humour, character, and certainly music, the movie really shines.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

They mention "The Tropic of Cancer" and I think of that Seinfeld episode.

“Well, let me tell you something, logic boy. Y'know that little holo-stamp, the one that says ‘Memory Alpha Public Library Computer’? Well that may not mean anything to you, but that means a lot to me. One whole hell of a lot. Sure, go ahead, raise your eyebrow if you want to. I've seen your type before: Flashy, making the scene, flouting convention. Yeah, I know what you're thinking. What's this guy making such a big stink about old library chips? Well, let me give you a hint, junior. Maybe we can live without library computers, people like you and me. Maybe. Sure, we're too old to change the galaxy, but what about that kid, sitting down, opening a PADD, right now, in a branch with a local library computer and finding drawings of corkscrew pee-pees and double wee-wees on the Sehlat in the Hat and the Five Klingon Brothers? Doesn't HE deserve better? Look. If you think this is about overdue credits and missing data chips, you'd better think again. This is about that kid's right to read a PADD without getting his mind warped like a starship! Or maybe that turns you on, mind-meld; maybe that's how you get your kicks. You and your amok-time buddies. Well I got a flash for ya, no-joy-boy: Pon-Farr time is over.”

 

[JLBTucker]

I have problems with star trek V but Sybock was not one of them, loved his performance

 

[Mudd]

Well, a broken heart is not a tragedy. And Bush/Chapel will never be like Barrett/Chapel.

 

[E-DUB]

There is a mod somewhere goin, "These melwing quims are taking the thread way off topic...but they are also getting on and having a laugh. Do I lose the laughter or the thread direction?"

As an aside, the term "mewling quim" is basically old English for "whiny c-words" and, as such, must be regarded as misogynistic. Sure, Loki said it in a movie, but Loki was an a-hole.

 

[dupersuper]

They're going to find and rescue the doctor Angel was impersonating, right? Right?

AND SYBOK IS CONFIRMED TO EXIST

I mean, I would've thought that being featured in a whole movie was confirmation enough...

Also, didn't one of the TOS eps establish a Phaser Turret in the Bridge ceiling?

TAS. That's about a decade from now and a very different looking bridge: I guess it's not installed yet.

I don’t mind Uhura being there but I agree that Chapel is a bit much. Lieutenant Moustache as well.

I wasn't a big fan of them using so many established characters, but I don't see how it goes against canon.

Uhura never served with Pike

You're basing this on...?

Uhura should not be on the crew, in cannon she served first under Jim Kirk.

She was a lieutenant at the beginning of Kirk's five year mission: why would we think that was her first assignment?

Of course, Spock doesn't stay with Leila

Do we know he was actually "with" Leila? I always got the impression she liked him but he was all Vulcan about it. Of course, I may just not want SNW to overwrite the novel Inception.

I will not refer to a single individual as "them", even if said individual had multiple personality disorder.

I'll do my best to refer to people however they ask me to in an effort to avoid being an asshole.

Its unrealistic representation wise per the population numbers. Its not accurate at all.

Are you also upset about the traditionally low number of Chinese and Indian extras among the humans from a united Earth?

Having grown up in a particularly evangelical portion of the Bible Belt, he is way way more sincere than any televengalist.

I've met several.

Despite the kidnapping and borderline mind control, he also seems much nicer.

They’re clearly trying to give a vibe that she might be interested in being more than friends with Christine Chapel and Chapel might not be averse to that though she is falling for Spock.

They are? I get a best buds feeling off of them.

I've seen those pointed-eared green-skinned aliens in the Star Trek/Legion of Super-Heroes mini-series and wondered about them at the time.

I think you're talking about Coluans, but they don't generally have pointed ears (though with all the DC reboots, who knows?).