Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?
- Thread starter B. L.
- Start date
The gist I get from Barclay is that he had significant emotional issues (almost certainly on the autism spectrum, with some social phobias, as well as others [including fear of transporters]), but he compensated by being very good at his job. When he could be pulled out of the holodeck, that is.
Well, that does sort of jibe with the end of "The Autobiography of Kathryn Janeway", in which Kate's last act as Voyager's captain was to promote him (possibly with his parents present).
I don't read minds, but I get the sense that the author (Una McCormack) thought Harry's long ensignhood was a pretty stupid plot development, but it was still canon; she made no attempt to justify it.
Maybe Janeway knew how eager Ensign Kim's parents were to see Harold succeed, so she decided she'd make a big spectacle out of promoting him when Voyager got back to the Alpha Quadrant so they wouldn't miss out on it
Well, that does sort of jibe with the end of "The Autobiography of Kathryn Janeway", in which Kate's last act as Voyager's captain was to promote him (possibly with his parents present).
I don't read minds, but I get the sense that the author (Una McCormack) thought Harry's long ensignhood was a pretty stupid plot development, but it was still canon; she made no attempt to justify it.
I would imagine this to be her letter to his parents once they came into contact with the Federation
Dear Mr. and Mrs. Kim,
I wished to contact you to tell you how marvelously and exemplary your son has been fulfilling his obligations as Head of Operations. Of course -- no one is perfect, he was almost on the point of mutiny for a few times, but on the whole he went above and beyond his responsibilities.
There have been some minor trifles and hiccups on the way you perhaps should know about, though - he got replaced by an other-dimensional duplicate, the original version being sucked into the vacuum of space screaming for help, he was eaten alive one cell at a time by a species 8472 infection without us even being able to sedate him, he was tortured in an alien prison camp more than once, infected by a few alien diseases, altering his genetic code, making him glow, or having viruses that eventually grew to the size of multispectral deep space probes escape from his orifices, he might have died and be resurrected, oh I believe, three, four times, a few run ins with the Borg with the Borg Queen personally telling him she would see him later, and other species hunting on us for our organs or flesh, but nothing too strenuous or outrageous, I assure you. However, should he start acting up weirdly at some point, the cause might be found somewhere between those - telling you just in case. We have often seen people are not quite as sound psychologically as they should be and are still complaining about such things two weeks later.
Should he ever need a glowing letter of recommendation for his next post, you can always write me for that, I would be most pleased to provide that for him. Even though I do think he is not quite ready for promotion yet. Yes, he has commanded the bridge at times, and also has been captain of an alien vessel, but on the whole, I think that before I can recommend that promotion to Lt. Jg., he would need at least a full year of full time experience commanding a fleet of at least 20 ships. I have such high expectations of him that I can't start lowering my bar now. For Tom Paris, for example, that bar would be much lower; not commiting crimes for some period of time would be sufficient to earn him that promotion. Some may call it unfair; I call it "personalized profile policy" trying to give everyone maximum incentive to stretch for more.
This way, I feel I'm doing the best for his future potential.
Yours faithfully,
capt. Kathryn Janeway.
Dear Mr. and Mrs. Kim,
I wished to contact you to tell you how marvelously and exemplary your son has been fulfilling his obligations as Head of Operations. Of course -- no one is perfect, he was almost on the point of mutiny for a few times, but on the whole he went above and beyond his responsibilities.
There have been some minor trifles and hiccups on the way you perhaps should know about, though - he got replaced by an other-dimensional duplicate, the original version being sucked into the vacuum of space screaming for help, he was eaten alive one cell at a time by a species 8472 infection without us even being able to sedate him, he was tortured in an alien prison camp more than once, infected by a few alien diseases, altering his genetic code, making him glow, or having viruses that eventually grew to the size of multispectral deep space probes escape from his orifices, he might have died and be resurrected, oh I believe, three, four times, a few run ins with the Borg with the Borg Queen personally telling him she would see him later, and other species hunting on us for our organs or flesh, but nothing too strenuous or outrageous, I assure you. However, should he start acting up weirdly at some point, the cause might be found somewhere between those - telling you just in case. We have often seen people are not quite as sound psychologically as they should be and are still complaining about such things two weeks later.
Should he ever need a glowing letter of recommendation for his next post, you can always write me for that, I would be most pleased to provide that for him. Even though I do think he is not quite ready for promotion yet. Yes, he has commanded the bridge at times, and also has been captain of an alien vessel, but on the whole, I think that before I can recommend that promotion to Lt. Jg., he would need at least a full year of full time experience commanding a fleet of at least 20 ships. I have such high expectations of him that I can't start lowering my bar now. For Tom Paris, for example, that bar would be much lower; not commiting crimes for some period of time would be sufficient to earn him that promotion. Some may call it unfair; I call it "personalized profile policy" trying to give everyone maximum incentive to stretch for more.
This way, I feel I'm doing the best for his future potential.
Yours faithfully,
capt. Kathryn Janeway.
I more like to envision him interviewing with Captain Will Riker for the Chief of Operations spot on the Titan.
RIKER: "I've reviewed your service record, Ensign, and I like what I see. Your experiences on Voyager are quite impressive, and you obviously had duties and responsibilities above your rank. Also, Admiral Janeway speaks highly of you. However, I do see a reprimand in your file... what's that about?"
KIM: "Well, uhh... I kind of had sex with an alien woman."
RIKER: "And... that's all you did?"
KIM: "Well... yeah."
Riker laughs his head off for several minutes, then...
RIKER: "Welcome aboard, Lieutenant Kim."
Justice and vindication for our plucky, oft-abused ensign!
RIKER: "I've reviewed your service record, Ensign, and I like what I see. Your experiences on Voyager are quite impressive, and you obviously had duties and responsibilities above your rank. Also, Admiral Janeway speaks highly of you. However, I do see a reprimand in your file... what's that about?"
KIM: "Well, uhh... I kind of had sex with an alien woman."
RIKER: "And... that's all you did?"
KIM: "Well... yeah."
Riker laughs his head off for several minutes, then...
RIKER: "Welcome aboard, Lieutenant Kim."
Justice and vindication for our plucky, oft-abused ensign!
After which Captain Riker can expect a house call from Vice Admiral Janeway, who normally wouldn't revert a promotion as they're generally considered internal affairs under the captain's discretion, but in this particular case of moral turpitude ...
RIKER <laughing>: But I've slept with countless alien women in my time!
Janeway <stern>: Let's just say I wasn't a vice-admiral yet when your Titan appointment came through..... captain.
RIKER <laughing>: But I've slept with countless alien women in my time!
Janeway <stern>: Let's just say I wasn't a vice-admiral yet when your Titan appointment came through..... captain.
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A spoonerism of Harry Kim's name is "karry Him".Maybe Janeway knew how eager Ensign Kim's parents were to see Harold succeed, so she decided she'd make a big spectacle out of promoting him when Voyager got back to the Alpha Quadrant so they wouldn't miss out on it
Mommy and daddy were begging every one's subconscious to help their boy because even as a baby, they knew that he was fucking useless.
But she and Riker come to an understanding, because they're both coldblooded murderers who got away with their crime. Janeway didn't want Harry to be a lieutenant, so Riker bumps him up to lieutenant commander instead.
Hero ships are good for promotion because wicked shit happens that makes heroes, but if you're promoted and transferred to a shitty ship that is almost never called into the thick of it, there is almost no chance for another promotion from a spectacular display of bravery.
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I'm sure pretty much everyone who was on Voyager got two promotions when they got home.
Then Janeway herself actually got the short end of the stick.
Or is there still a rank between Captain and Vice Admiral in late 24th century Starfleet?
Or is there still a rank between Captain and Vice Admiral in late 24th century Starfleet?
If Equinox lasted more than two episodes, she would have been a Fleet Captain, and Chakotay would have become the Captain of the Equinox, unless the Maquis remained untrustworthy terrorists and then Captain Tuvok gets the Equinox.
Yes, I've seen rear admirals before. The commandant of Starfleet Academy (seen in "The First Duty") was one.
Also, there were Commodores in Starfleet in the 23rd century. So Janeway either skipped that rank as well (making her promotion three grades), or it had ceased to exist by then (as it has today).
If everyone else got bumped two grades, the final ranks (and collar insignia) would be:
Chakotay: Captain ○○○○
Tuvok: Captain ○○○○
Torres: LCDR ○○●
Paris: LCDR ○○●
Kim: Lieutenant ○○
We see in Lower Decks that Paris was only a lieutenant ○○. However, maybe he and Tuvok only got one rank, because they were promoted on Voyager, and no one else was. That would make Tuvok a commander ○○○.
Also, there were Commodores in Starfleet in the 23rd century. So Janeway either skipped that rank as well (making her promotion three grades), or it had ceased to exist by then (as it has today).
If everyone else got bumped two grades, the final ranks (and collar insignia) would be:
Chakotay: Captain ○○○○
Tuvok: Captain ○○○○
Torres: LCDR ○○●
Paris: LCDR ○○●
Kim: Lieutenant ○○
We see in Lower Decks that Paris was only a lieutenant ○○. However, maybe he and Tuvok only got one rank, because they were promoted on Voyager, and no one else was. That would make Tuvok a commander ○○○.
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This assumes that Ransom died or was relieved for his actions.
Either way, I expect Harry would have ranked up. I expect Janeway would have kept Tuvok as her first and then-Ensign Paris as pilot. But we already know that Captain Chakotay was perfectly willing to promote Harry; he did it twice in the "Before and After" timeline.
As Captain, Tuvok would have wanted a Starfleet stalwart as his second in command, so Harry might have been bumped at least to full lieutenant.
So because The XO of Voyager is a Lieutenant commander and no one else on Voyager can be a Lieutenant commander, or higher, other than the Captain, then the XO of the Equinox cannot be higher than a Lieutenant, other than the Captain.
Smaller ship, smaller crew, less responsibility.
Equinox is tragically small.
Smaller ship, smaller crew, less responsibility.
Equinox is tragically small.
No, if Chakotay were placed in charge of the Equinox, he would get a field promotion to captain, four pips and all. Once certain crew were assigned to him, he could promote at his discretion.
I expect he'd take B'Elanna, because he'd need her expertise to restore the Equinox's engines. But he'd want some Starfleet personnel, so it wouldn't seem like the Equinox was going to be "Valjean 2.0". Harry would probably be a good choice.
I expect he'd take B'Elanna, because he'd need her expertise to restore the Equinox's engines. But he'd want some Starfleet personnel, so it wouldn't seem like the Equinox was going to be "Valjean 2.0". Harry would probably be a good choice.
I actually was hoping we'd get to have the Equinox for a bit.
Given Ronald D. Moore was on staff at the time this was produced, I wonder if his Pegasus arc and keeping her around for as long as he did on BSG was him fulfilling this idea that was not meant to be on VOYAGER.
Given Ronald D. Moore was on staff at the time this was produced, I wonder if his Pegasus arc and keeping her around for as long as he did on BSG was him fulfilling this idea that was not meant to be on VOYAGER.
Every ounce of BSG was a big fu&k you to Voyager.
Lots of it, I agree with you.
Though if 9/11 never happened, it's very possible BSG wouldn't, either. Or it definitely wouldn't be as dark as it got sometimes.
Though if 9/11 never happened, it's very possible BSG wouldn't, either. Or it definitely wouldn't be as dark as it got sometimes.
Not necessarily. We've seen non-captains in charge of starships before (e.g. DS9's "Second Sight").
And Dax in "BEHIND THE LINES" and "FAVOR THE BOLD".
