What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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I missed that post of yours and I wasn't aware S4 Disco stuff was still considered to be off limits to be talked about openly (considering how long has it been since S4 ended).
In fairness, that memory Alpha pos could be wrong on the location of the hyperfield because if it was only 30 ly's away from the galactic barrier, then WHY did the president say it would take them decades to get back?
This doesn't mesh with your earlier premise that Warp drive became much faster in the 32nd century (and in fact posits the idea that Warp didn't advance at all - because 30 ly's is a fairly small distance from the galactic barrier... but inside the galaxy, it would be tens of thousands of Ly's worth of space the ship would need to traverse to reach the HQ
Either way, I don't see the issue. The Spore Drive still has to work outside the galaxy, otherwise, the ship wouldn't be able to use it at all to escape the Hyperfield.
This doesn't mesh with your earlier premise that Warp drive became much faster in the 32nd century (and in fact posits the idea that Warp didn't advance at all - because 30 ly's is a fairly small distance from the galactic barrier... but inside the galaxy, it would be tens of thousands of Ly's worth of space the ship would need to traverse to reach the HQ
Either way, I don't see the issue. The Spore Drive still has to work outside the galaxy, otherwise, the ship wouldn't be able to use it at all to escape the Hyperfield.
That's actually something that bothered me about that finale.
In the 24th century, Voyager would have taken 75 years to get back. They were 70,000 light years away, but add on refueling and other things, we can assume travel of about 1,000 light years per year.
And Discovery was upgraded with 32nd century technology.
Even if their warp drive was still from the 23rd century, it never made sense that 30 light years would take decades to get back. A month or so, okay. I'll even go as high as 3 months, just because I'm supremely generous.
But DECADES? It was a glaring error that felt like forced drama just for the sake of drama for the resolution at the end.
In the 24th century, Voyager would have taken 75 years to get back. They were 70,000 light years away, but add on refueling and other things, we can assume travel of about 1,000 light years per year.
And Discovery was upgraded with 32nd century technology.
Even if their warp drive was still from the 23rd century, it never made sense that 30 light years would take decades to get back. A month or so, okay. I'll even go as high as 3 months, just because I'm supremely generous.
But DECADES? It was a glaring error that felt like forced drama just for the sake of drama for the resolution at the end.
It doesn't conflict really, because 30 ly's from the Galactic Barrier is trivial with 24th century Warp Drive, much less 32nd Century. The decades back to StarFleet HQ or Earth is spoken from the UFP President, none of the StarFleet Officers ever took the time to correct her. I highly doubt a politician who was newly elected, would know the true performance of the USS Discovery-A. Especially given how busy she's been with her own job as UFP President. Nobody bothered correcting her, and it doesn't matter. What we saw with the relative performance of the USS Discovery in the short Warp jaunt to the edge of the Galactic Barrier was enough to give a reasonably accurate assessment. And given the worst case scenario of distance from the farthest point in the MilkyWay Galactic Barrier to travel back to Earth, my estimate using USS Discovery-A's Warp Speed was slightly under 1 year. I don't take the word of a politician, especially on the performance of a StarShip, and she was never in StarFleet. She only served on her dad's transport, and who knows how old that sucker was.
Go back and look at our discussion in the DISCO threads.
Go back and look at our discussion in the DISCO threads.
See above on what I replied to Dek's. It's basically the same thing
Just one sentence of dialogue wpuld habe fixed that. Besides, she has to be aware of some of warp times and distances. Even a transport from the 32nd century would travel pretty fast. And she has worked closely with Admiral Vance, and I'm sure such things have come up before.
Don't take politician's quoted figures too seriously. I've heard PLENTY of IRL politicians who gets #'s for basic stats wrong entirely by HUGE orders of magnitude. She's the UFP President, she's not expected to be competent on the operation of a StarFleet StarShip, much less the USS Discovery-A who is a unique vessel in the 32nd century.
Well, this thread can't be read anymore... 
If this keeps going the thread will look like it was the result of a Freedom of Information Act request.
Kirk calls Bones "Bones" because Bones has two bones.
Actually, it's short for 'sawbones', which was a nickname for doctors in the Wild West. (I believe they sometimes doubled as undertakers, too.) Fitting, since STAR TREK was made during the height of westerns, and Kelley was in a lot of westerns.
Kirk calls Bones that because he constantly... every single day of his life... likes to remind him of his painful divorce and fleeing Earth.
All he's got left is his career and his beautiful sickbay and his friends and his bones.
I agree that 30 Ly's is pretty much nothing even for 24th century Warp drive, however, considering the fact no one corrected the president on that estimate, it stands to reason its (mostly) accurate. Most people in the 32nd century (politicians included) would probably have basic understanding of Warp drive and distances involved - and regardless of how twisted politicians behave today, remember that in Trek, they don't... or at least wouldn't... and they wouldn't say something as blatantly wrong as that in the presence of other SF officers.
Plus, even though she wasn't SF, she did serve aboard a transport... so she would have an understanding of Warp drive, etc... and given how 'in your nose' she tended to be, I'm guessing she familiarized herself well with Discovery and its overall capabilities.
When we also contrast this with the premise that in S3 it was mentioned the Thikov was 5 months away, it gives you a pretty good indication that Warp drive hasn't advanced in terms of speeds much or at all (which of course is ludicrous in itself, but this is a show that didn't bother advancing anything substantial in 800 years and left things largely as they are, so the premise that Warp drive hadn't advanced isn't far away from the realm of possibility).
VOY could cover 15 Ly's in about 2 days at 'high warp'... meaning that Disco would need 4 days to traverse 30 Ly's at those speeds... possibly half as much time... but I am extremely skeptical that Warp drive experienced any substantial increase in speeds when we contrast it to everything else we saw.
Plus, even though she wasn't SF, she did serve aboard a transport... so she would have an understanding of Warp drive, etc... and given how 'in your nose' she tended to be, I'm guessing she familiarized herself well with Discovery and its overall capabilities.
When we also contrast this with the premise that in S3 it was mentioned the Thikov was 5 months away, it gives you a pretty good indication that Warp drive hasn't advanced in terms of speeds much or at all (which of course is ludicrous in itself, but this is a show that didn't bother advancing anything substantial in 800 years and left things largely as they are, so the premise that Warp drive hadn't advanced isn't far away from the realm of possibility).
VOY could cover 15 Ly's in about 2 days at 'high warp'... meaning that Disco would need 4 days to traverse 30 Ly's at those speeds... possibly half as much time... but I am extremely skeptical that Warp drive experienced any substantial increase in speeds when we contrast it to everything else we saw.
Not controversial as such but by the time of Voyager didn't they cure cancer?
I thought the comment was not about getting back to the barrier but about getting to HQ - which does resolve much of the issue around how long it could take.
I choose to understand the issue over the speed at which they can travel not having increased substantially being that there is some kind of artificial limiter in place like the way we have speed limits.
Maybe it is due to the ability to navigate or it screws with subspace (wasn't there a TNG ep about that?)
Maybe due to the Spore Drive they were unable to upgrade Disco to fully utilise the 32nd c tech?
Either way, it more or less reconciles things.
I choose to understand the issue over the speed at which they can travel not having increased substantially being that there is some kind of artificial limiter in place like the way we have speed limits.
Maybe it is due to the ability to navigate or it screws with subspace (wasn't there a TNG ep about that?)
Maybe due to the Spore Drive they were unable to upgrade Disco to fully utilise the 32nd c tech?
Either way, it more or less reconciles things.
There is no real artificial limiter on Warp. It was established in the 24th century that Warp 9.9 = 21 473 times speed of light, and the USS Prometheus (as seen in VOY season 4), was the first SF ship capable of travelling at 9.9 without shaking itself apart (unlike VOY which was only able to maintain 9.75 for 12 hrs - not 9.975).
Ships were also seen travelling at much faster speeds on the warp scale too when pushed by external forces (which btw were studied).
At any rate, yes, the distances involved related largely to getting back to SF HQ and/or Earth... but my point was this is a clear indication that Warp as such hadn't advanced in 800 years, which is ridiculous at best - especially when we take into account all experimentation UFP did in the 24th century and technologies and knowledge they uncovered/received - all of which was swept under the rug for 32nd century [its one of the main reasons I find Disco to be barely watchable in S3 and 4].
At any rate, upgrading Disco fully shouldn't have been an issue. Even replicators and transporters can easily reshape matter on a subatomic level in the 24th century... programmable matter makes things even easier.
Also, Disco's hull underwent changes to accommodate for 32nd century technology, and I wouldn't be surprised if also the superstructure was changed/refreshed to be in line with 32nd century mettalurgy - again, this could also be done in the 24th century with the tech that was available back then.
I will admit there might be underlying design limitations which prevent much faster Warp speeds on Disco (nothing to do with the Spore Drive itself), but to be fair, the Thikov was already mentioned it was 5 months away... so, no real advancement to speak of in the Warp speed department and Disco underwent serious changes in almost every department.
By the 32nd century, maintaining Warp 9.9 at the very least on most ships should be a proverbial breeze [after the Burn], allowing a ship to traverse even 100 000 Ly's in just over 4 and a half years. But no advancement was made whatsoever it seems to it seems like they are limited to 1000 ly's per year at most
Ships were also seen travelling at much faster speeds on the warp scale too when pushed by external forces (which btw were studied).
At any rate, yes, the distances involved related largely to getting back to SF HQ and/or Earth... but my point was this is a clear indication that Warp as such hadn't advanced in 800 years, which is ridiculous at best - especially when we take into account all experimentation UFP did in the 24th century and technologies and knowledge they uncovered/received - all of which was swept under the rug for 32nd century [its one of the main reasons I find Disco to be barely watchable in S3 and 4].
At any rate, upgrading Disco fully shouldn't have been an issue. Even replicators and transporters can easily reshape matter on a subatomic level in the 24th century... programmable matter makes things even easier.
Also, Disco's hull underwent changes to accommodate for 32nd century technology, and I wouldn't be surprised if also the superstructure was changed/refreshed to be in line with 32nd century mettalurgy - again, this could also be done in the 24th century with the tech that was available back then.
I will admit there might be underlying design limitations which prevent much faster Warp speeds on Disco (nothing to do with the Spore Drive itself), but to be fair, the Thikov was already mentioned it was 5 months away... so, no real advancement to speak of in the Warp speed department and Disco underwent serious changes in almost every department.
By the 32nd century, maintaining Warp 9.9 at the very least on most ships should be a proverbial breeze [after the Burn], allowing a ship to traverse even 100 000 Ly's in just over 4 and a half years. But no advancement was made whatsoever it seems to it seems like they are limited to 1000 ly's per year at most
Agreed on all of the above so I should rephrase - when I say artificial limiters I mean like the fact that my car can in theory do 130mph but it isn't going to do that for long, either because I run out of fuel or road conditions do not allow it.
So maybe some regions of space/subspace necessitate reduced speeds and it isn't efficient enough to rag it along at max warp all the way as you risk running low on deuterium or something before reaching a refueling spot.
So maybe some regions of space/subspace necessitate reduced speeds and it isn't efficient enough to rag it along at max warp all the way as you risk running low on deuterium or something before reaching a refueling spot.
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