• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Is Picard season 2 a failure?

It also wasn't even the goriest thing ST has ever done ("Conspiracy").
Ugh. That shot is nasty. "No gore in Star Trek?" Please.

TNG tells us otherwise:
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
Did not happen. Seven of Nine is still Seven of Nine. She's always had a ruthless streak and has never been someone who necessarily believed in the authority of the state. I completely believe she would kill to avenge Icheb's death.
"He wasn't responding to diplomacy."
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
In what way did Pulitzer Prize-winning writer Michael Chabon "gaslight" anybody? What the heck is it with this weird desire to paint creators whose decisions you don't enjoy as bad people?
I don't know but it is quite frustrating to see such broad sweeping generalizations against people we don't know.
I don't care if I was the only person on Earth watching Picard I would still enjoy it and continue to watch as long as it existed.
Same here.
You see, ANYYYY MINUTE NOW, Paramount Plus will cancel all of its Star Trek shows, retcon them away, apologize, and hire the Axanar guy.

:)
Should be happening right about...


...


...


...


...wait for it...
 
I made a drinking game in which you take a shot when a Picard season 2 fan explains a weird character action or motivation as that character dealing with past trauma....


And yeah I died from synthehol poisoning.
 
Wait is 7 way different from 20 years ago or exactly the same?

Because when she doesn't speak in cool sevenisms you guys say it's because she has been in the alpha quadrant for 20 years???

Clearly she has changed in some ways and remains the same in others.

You know. Like how real people change over long periods of time in some ways and remain the same in others.

What's the issue?
 
I made a drinking game in which you take a shot when a Picard season 2 fan explains a weird character action or motivation as that character dealing with past trauma....
Welcome to the human race.

Trauma is a major part of our experience here and how we deal with it, as well as death, is at least as important with how we deal with life.

I heard that somewhere on a Trekking show.
 
Why does that bother you? It's just a word.


If an admiral is going to swear at Picard then let her call him a petaQ!!!!

Just swear in klingon...

Jesus christ people

Maybe she was a part of the klingon officer Exchange Program?

You know world building?
 
If an admiral is going to swear at Picard then let her call him a petaQ!!!!

Just swear in klingon...

Jesus christ people

Maybe she was a part of the klingon officer Exchange Program?

You know world building?
Or recognizing that human language will use language it has for the past 600+ years.

You know, history?

Or where people fussed by Data's use of "shit" in Generations?
 
Wait is 7 way different from 20 years ago or exactly the same?

Because when she doesn't speak in cool sevenisms you guys say it's because she has been in the alpha quadrant for 20 years???

I'm saying its weird to complain about Seven, the character who was always ruthlessly pragmatic and the alternative to Starfleet's touchy-feely goodness is the character who is ruthless and pragmatic compared to Picard's touchy-feely goodness.

I fully believe, somewhere on this forum, someone said that Picard makes too many speeches.

Or recognizing that human language will use language it has for the past 600+ years.

You know, history?

Or where people fussed by Data's use of "shit" in Generations?

Yes, yes they were. Also, they called out Tilly for being a pottymouth in Discovery like we were all 7 year olds.
 
I'm saying its weird to complain about Seven, the character who was always ruthlessly pragmatic and the alternative to Starfleet's touchy-feely goodness is the character who is ruthless and pragmatic compared to Picard's touchy-feely goodness.

I fully believe, somewhere on this forum, someone said that Picard makes too many speeches.
That's was me I think ;)
 
Why? What's wrong with the word "fuck?" It's an extremely useful word that has been around for almost 550 years.
Hey some fans like when they swear in klingon or romulan


Some fans like it when they say fuck off Picard you android.


Different strokes
 
I guess the issue is... it's just Jeri Ryan lol

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Seven's core values and personality remain intact. She's still a very pragmatic person who doesn't believe in conventional authority, is willing to use violence or kill if she thinks it is necessary to protect or avenge the people she loves, is haunted by her time with the Borg, is extremely reluctant to become emotionally attached, yet is motivated by a fundamental compassion. She didn't stop being Seven of Nine just because she can use contractions now.

Hey some fans like when they swear in klingon or romulan


Some fans like it when they say fuck off Picard you android.


Different strokes

I mean, sure, but why object to the use of the word "fuck?"
 
Welcome to the human race.

Trauma is a major part of our experience here and how we deal with it, as well as death, is at least as important with how we deal with life.

I heard that somewhere on a Trekking show.


No one get it:

Why did seven and raffi stab that guy and say it's ok to kill borg they aren't human.

Because they are dealing with past trauma.


When Picard gets hit by a tesla Why do they refuse to send him to a med bed?

But chose a community clinic?

Because he has to be on a coma so he can show us his past trauma

And then Rios girlfriend is shocking him with the paddles and its shorting out her electronics.


But no we need a coma to explore past trauma
 
68777907.jpg


I think a large part of what is causing the distaste for Picard is the fact that it is following the Deep Space Nine trajectory of having the characters tackle issues of a flawed but benevolent Federation. Gene Roddenberry really did object to the future not being utopian and TNG's early years were the worst for this. However, as early as The Wrath of Khan, many writers found much more interest in testing the Federation against the anvil it is hammered against and seeing if it could rise above its struggles.

Gene Roddenberry wasn't a fool. He knew you needed conflict in order to tell good stories but the reason it is Star TREK is because that the story was always LEAVING the Federation to visit alien worlds that weren't as evolved or happy. The Enterprise being a roving force for good.

Picard does have the issue that it manages to do both things simultaneously and satisfy neither. Picard shows the Federation being hammered against the Anvil of its next 9/11 (we've had the Xindi Superweapon and the Attack on Earth/Dominion War would qualify too if it didn't predate 9/11). I'd add INTO DARKNESS too but sadly that movie was written by a "truther" and thus I've lost all regard I've had for that film.

The thing is the Federation isn't where the majority of awful Picard encounters is. Picard takes place primarily in the former Neutral Zone that has been reimagined as a kind of lawless Space Western setting with the Fenris Rangers as the Texas Marshalls as well as Romulan Warrior Nuns dealing justice versus a "civilized" place like the Federation. I honestly think some fans seems to have missed that Freecloud is there and assumed the organ-harvesting psychopaths were living in the UFOP.

There's also a certain level of "my toys are not broken!" Which is the fact that Picard being a lonely old man disrespected by Starfleet is always going to be a bitter pill to swallow. No one liked when in YOUNG INDIANA JONES, they had opening segments where 100+ year old Indy is wandering around museums with no one giving him the time of day. Say what you will about Kirk in Generations but at least he was treated as a hero. Picard has saved the universe multiple times and he's basically treated as a Jimmy Carter with someone shoving a mike in his face to get a soundbyte about Iran.

Picard and Seven are in pretty rough places and so is Troi and Riker. Picard is unmarried, no kids, Troi and Riker lost their child to a stupid medical law (stem cells?), and Seven lost her surrogate son before becoming Boba Fett. The novels have a somewhat comforting quality in that they imagined everything ending up awesome for everyone. Massive Borg invasion aside.
 
I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Seven's core values and personality remain intact. She's still a very pragmatic person who doesn't believe in conventional authority, is willing to use violence or kill if she thinks it is necessary to protect or avenge the people she loves, is haunted by her time with the Borg, is extremely reluctant to become emotionally attached, yet is motivated by a fundamental compassion. She didn't stop being Seven of Nine just because she can use contractions now.



I mean, sure, but why object to the use of the word "fuck?"
only a veruul would use such language in public.
 
68777907.jpg


I think a large part of what is causing the distaste for Picard is the fact that it is following the Deep Space Nine trajectory of having the characters tackle issues of a flawed but benevolent Federation. Gene Roddenberry really did object to the future not being utopian and TNG's early years were the worst for this. However, as early as The Wrath of Khan, many writers found much more interest in testing the Federation against the anvil it is hammered against and seeing if it could rise above its struggles.

Gene Roddenberry wasn't a fool. He knew you needed conflict in order to tell good stories but the reason it is Star TREK is because that the story was always LEAVING the Federation to visit alien worlds that weren't as evolved or happy. The Enterprise being a roving force for good.

Picard does have the issue that it manages to do both things simultaneously and satisfy neither. Picard shows the Federation being hammered against the Anvil of its next 9/11 (we've had the Xindi Superweapon and the Attack on Earth/Dominion War would qualify too if it didn't predate 9/11). I'd add INTO DARKNESS too but sadly that movie was written by a "truther" and thus I've lost all regard I've had for that film.

The thing is the Federation isn't where the majority of awful Picard encounters is. Picard takes place primarily in the former Neutral Zone that has been reimagined as a kind of lawless Space Western setting with the Fenris Rangers as the Texas Marshalls as well as Romulan Warrior Nuns dealing justice versus a "civilized" place like the Federation. I honestly think some fans seems to have missed that Freecloud is there and assumed the organ-harvesting psychopaths were living in the UFOP.

There's also a certain level of "my toys are not broken!" Which is the fact that Picard being a lonely old man disrespected by Starfleet is always going to be a bitter pill to swallow. No one liked when in YOUNG INDIANA JONES, they had opening segments where 100+ year old Indy is wandering around museums with no one giving him the time of day. Say what you will about Kirk in Generations but at least he was treated as a hero. Picard has saved the universe multiple times and he's basically treated as a Jimmy Carter with someone shoving a mike in his face to get a soundbyte about Iran.

Picard and Seven are in pretty rough places and so is Troi and Riker. Picard is unmarried, no kids, Troi and Riker lost their child to a stupid medical law (stem cells?), and Seven lost her surrogate son before becoming Boba Fett. The novels have a somewhat comforting quality in that they imagined everything ending up awesome for everyone. Massive Borg invasion aside.


Cool post but did you see the scene were raffi and seven stab 50 borg hybrids in a hail of gun fire.


Like what are we talking about
 
I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Seven's core values and personality remain intact. She's still a very pragmatic person who doesn't believe in conventional authority, is willing to use violence or kill if she thinks it is necessary to protect or avenge the people she loves, is haunted by her time with the Borg, is extremely reluctant to become emotionally attached, yet is motivated by a fundamental compassion. She didn't stop being Seven of Nine just because she can use contractions now.



I mean, sure, but why object to the use of the word "fuck?"
That's not Seven

Seven talks in sevenisms and is cool


That lady is a retired actor
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top