Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard

[Vale]

I'm very much hoping they don't use the Enterprise-F from Star Trek Online. I absolutely hate the Odyssey-class and it has never felt like it suited a ship of the Enterprise lineage for me. Also, the Enterprise-E would only be 29 years old by that point if she were still in service – a milestone the original Enterprise passed somewhere between The Motion Picture and The Wrath of Khan, so hardly unprecedented. She could easily still be operational and sporting the latest Starfleet technology. Given that the Galaxy-class was built to last for 100 years...

 

[JRob94]

Would they have admiral Picard at the commissioning of the E-F?

It would seem appropriate. Especially if it were current to the timeline. They probably wouldn’t during the time he had resigned, though.

 

[danellis]

Huh? I'm talking about designing a new ship to look like a ship from 100 years before.

I know you did, and until now, I'd made more-or-less the same assumption I think you're making: that a TNG Miranda was essentially the same as a StarTrek IV Miranda. This conversation makes me wonder if that has to be the case, or do they make a "tribute" Miranda every 30 or so years? That might explain the subtle differences, and the occasional suggestion of different class names (Soyuz v Miranda, etc.)

dJE

 

[Dukhat]

What are your thoughts on the ENT Bird of Prey, which is 95% indentical to the one in the classic movies, Next Gen and DS9?

Since this was directed at me, I'd be happy to answer.

First, as has already been mentioned, the ENT BoP is not '95%' identical to the movie BoP. But I think I know why you were making that point. So let me continue.

The ENT BoP came about because John Eaves recycled design elements from DS9's "Way of the Warrior" in 1995. One of his first jobs was to create new Klingon ship designs for Martok's fleet. However, rather than create more original and unique designs, he instead just used the K'T'ingas and BoPs as a base and just added things to them, gave them extra wings, etc. (I'm not dissing his work here; I'm merely pointing out the facts.) But the decision was made to just use the old designs for the fleet, since they could utilize model kits, Playmates toys, etc. for filming and for the destruction of the ships.

Now fast-forward to 2003. 2150-era Klingon vessels were needed, and instead of reusing the D5 that was introduced in "Marauders," Eaves designed a BoP based closely on the design he created back in '95 for WoTW. So essentially a ship meant for the in-show year 2372 was used for a ship from the year 2153.

Did Berman & Braga specifically tell Eaves to recycle his designs? Beats me, but his modus operandi tends to work that way. Is it a crime to reuse rejected designs later, even if it's not for the same time period it was originally designed for? At this point, I suppose that doesn't matter either.

However, I think that it was a fundamentally flawed decision to use a ship that was designed and mentioned by name as a "Bird of Prey" for a Klingon ship in the year 2153. Since STIII onward, there seemed to be a technology exchange between the Klingons and the Romulans, especially in the ship design department. But now thanks to ENT, it looks like two completely different alien races have ships that coincidentally resemble each other and are called the same thing, for no real good reason, a century before.

I know you did, and until now, I'd made more-or-less the same assumption I think you're making: that a TNG Miranda was essentially the same as a StarTrek IV Miranda. This conversation makes me wonder if that has to be the case, or do they make a "tribute" Miranda every 30 or so years? That might explain the subtle differences, and the occasional suggestion of different class names (Soyuz v Miranda, etc.)

I don't think so. I think Mirandas (for some odd reason) were a long-lasting design, but eventually they stopped producing them. Sure they were probably refit many times (which would explain the glowing nacelles and red bussards that the TMP-era Miranda's didn't have), but making new ones just to make them? I doubt that.

 

[The Old Mixer]

You really like getting in the last word, don't you? Quite an established pattern I've noticed from you since first arriving. Are you sure you're a therapist?

I take I wasn't to respond?

Very well. Have a good day.

How very passive-aggressive in your obvious deflection, while illustrating my previous point. Interesting.

Very well.

How would you like me to respond when you say this?

How's this...

Maybe don't?

Mind. Blown.

Still proving my point, BTW.

I love the smell of urine in the evening...

...NOT!

 

[fireproof78]

I love the smell of urine in the evening...

...NOT!

I apologize.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Ditto

 

[Markonian]

I, for one, want the Odyssey/Yorktown-class Enterprise-F from Adam Ihle and Thomas Marrone canonised, then Eaglemoss can get on with making an XL model and perhaps the ISS Enterprise-F.

 

[Dukhat]

Memory alpha has the whole story. They built it for free, so when the producers wanted window modifications they had to refuse, on principal.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/D4_class_(concept)

Thanks for that link. Here is the relevant quote about the ship:

Rob Bonchune (speaking after ENT ended and UPN folded): "The only other original design that was also chopped (that I remember now) was the John Eaves Klingon D-6 or D-5 [sic] that I included in my calendar image for 2006. It was originally done FOR FREE for Star Trek: Enterprise by Koji [Kuramura], who stayed up 36 hours to do it for the show. It looked great, but then the "producer(s)" said, "put more windows on it". We said "no" (you have to understand that we did so much extra, that at that point it was the straw that broke the camel's back when they were being mindlessly trivial and unappreciative). So, in their infinite wisdom, they choose to use a low-resolution K't'inga model (from a timeline over 100 years later) we had lying around. Because that was much more logical than a ship that needed 10 more windows that no one would EVER notice!!!!...We all loved it over at Foundation and our friend Koji built it for free. Amazingly, even though it was a freebee for the episode, certain people in production still found a way to nit pick certain things and refused to ultimately use it until windows were added in certain places. We refused, on principle, as Koji had not slept for days building that on his own and they knew it... so instead of using it, because of, I think 5 windows that you would never see, we ended up using the K'tinga, which was UTTERLY out of place and out of continuity in the Enterprise era. Ahhh producers..." Nevertheless, Kuramura himself expressed great pride in his build, "I had the great pleasure of building this model for Enterprise. But for reasons that were never clear, they decided to go with the older version of the Klingon ship that was based on the STMP Klingon ship. Which Jose [Perez] built. This was one of my favorite models that I got to build."

Bonchune knew the score; it was the ENT/UPN producers who had their heads up their collective asses.

I, for one, want the Odyssey/Yorktown-class Enterprise-F from Adam Ihle and Thomas Marrone canonised, then Eaglemoss can get on with making an XL model and perhaps the ISS Enterpr-F.

I was never a huge fan of the Odyssey class Enterprise-F for myriad reasons. But at least the Yorktown variant looks a little better. If they give it more detail in a new CGI model, perhaps it will look ok. I juts wish they would come up with a more original design, but that probably won't happen.

 

[Deks]

That might be a nice bookend for the series finale.

Question is: will they pick the STO version of the E-F or something else? Based on recent design choices for the ships used in PIC, likely the former.

Would they have a need to?
Enterprise-E is perfectly fine and the Sovereign class is still in service.
Actually, I'd expect that all TNG and onward based designs would still be in service and would mostly receive internal upgrades to keep them on par with other state of the art ships... at least until they hit 50 years old. At this point, some hull changes would probably start happening with more substantial ones occurring once they hit 100 years old (or younger - technology evolves faster the farther into the future you go, but also, most of the design changes would likely end up being internal due to downscaling, etc.... hull changes would ensue mainly for the sake of optimizing efficiency of the design itself, assisting in Warp and other FTL technologies, better protection, etc).

This 'tradition' of blowing up or retiring Enterprises after a small service period is absurd.
These ships are designed initially to last 200 years... upgrading the ships and their infrastructure over time would effectively expand their life expectancy to 'indefinitely'... quite literally.
Transporters and replicators can effectively convert energy into matter, recycle matter into energy, or just convert one form of matter into another.
This way, if a ship was constructed in the 24th century, and barring something or someone destroying it, it could technically be upgraded perpetually... either in the field... or in spacedock and still be in service in the 32nd century (and looking like a contemporary ship on par with other state of the art ships).

Instead, we get small variations on the same hull design which are apparently entirely different classes of ships (which doesn't make sense)... and ships being retired from active service after barely a decade or two of service.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Yeah, I would certainly be okay with the E-E still being around out there, maybe captained by Geordi or someone else we know.

I would think, however that we should at least see some kind of Enterprise in S3.

 

[Markonian]

Yeah, I would certainly be okay with the E-E still being around out there, maybe captained by Geordi or someone else we know.

I would think, however that we should at least see some kind of Enterprise in S3.

Not Geordi, he has to command the USS Challenger. Beverly is put to Pasteur. Perhaps Captain Worf, Troi, or Wesley Crusher?

 

[Deks]

Not Geordi, he has to command the USS Challenger. Beverly is put to Pasteur. Perhaps Captain Worf, Troi, or Wesley Crusher?

Geordi was a captain of the Challenger in the alternate timeline which was erased in 'Timeless' episode of VOY.
There is no guarantee he got that captaincy in the timeline we know (post 'Endgame').
Similarly, Crusher was a Captain of the Pasteur in another alternate timeline which won't happen at all (for one thing, the ENT-D in that timeline was still in service and not destroyed - but I was surprised SF wanted to mothball that ship after what... 20 odd years of service? Waste of resources).

Troi is on the Titan with Riker... they'd likely remain together, but we have no idea whether Troi ended up as captain... its been a while since I've seen Picard S1, but to me it didn't seem like it.

Wesley is a traveller... I doubt very much he would return to become part of SF.

As for who would be the captain of the ENT-E... doesn't NEED to be anyone from TNG crew... or it could be Worf (who knows).

 

[137th Gebirg]

Not Geordi, he has to command the USS Challenger. Beverly is put to Pasteur. Perhaps Captain Worf, Troi, or Wesley Crusher?

Hmmm... Yes, possibly. I ran through all these characters in my head.

• Beverly may be a candidate, as ATG was an alternate timeline situation where Riker was an Admiral on a 3-engine Enterprise-D hotrod and Troi was dead. Granted, it would still make more sense for Beverly to be in charge of a medical vessel.
  
• I was under the impression that Worf had gone permanently back to the Empire, possibly as an ambassador or other high-ranking member of the Council representing his house, but I suspect that may just be STO story-lines popping up in my subconscious.
• Troi? Also possible, but she did crash the E-D and might have a slight blemish on her record over that little incident when it comes to commanding vessels. And, as mentioned by Deks, she's been with Riker the whole time.
• Wesley? Has he gotten tired of exploring the very nature of existence itself with the Traveler already? Perhaps he is the source of Starfleet's advanced propulsion system of the USS Protostar (because moving quaintly through space at warp is slow A.F.) and when that prototype disappeared he oversaw the upgrade to a second prototype during a refit of the E-E. That actually sounds kind of cool. Too bad Wesley is such a tosser. If it goes that way, I really hope they do a complete overhaul of the character so he becomes actually tolerable to watch.

Come to think of it. Wesley looks like the only one of the original cast who isn't coming back for S3. Interesting. Could that be an intentional omission? Is there something special planned for Roddenberry's avatar next season?

 

[fireproof78]

Wesley is a traveller... I doubt very much he would return to become part of SF.

Forgot about Nemesis.

 

[Markonian]

H

• Troi? Also possible, but she did crash the E-D and might have a slight blemish on her record over that little incident when it comes to commanding vessels. And, as mentioned by Deks, she's been with Riker the whole time.

The ship was going to crash no matter what, or am I misremembering? Instead, a command officer and the Counselor took the helm without hesitation and landed the saucer so that the crew and passengers would live instead of suffering a fiery death. That's worth a commendation.

Going non-canon, in STO, Cap of the Captain's Table mentions exchanging a chocolate recipe with Captain Troi.

 

[137th Gebirg]

The ship was going to crash no matter what, or am I misremembering? Instead, a command officer and the Counselor took the helm without hesitation and landed the saucer so that the crew and passengers would live instead of suffering a fiery death. That's worth a commendation.

Going non-canon, in STO, Cap of the Captain's Table mentions exchanging a chocolate recipe with Captain Troi.

Point well taken.

I suppose I fell prey to the age-old running joke of Troi crashing ships while at the helm (also ramming the E-E into the Scimitar in Nemesis at Picard's order). She did both, IIRC, without the ship suffering additional casualties, which is Tom Paris-level flying, so yeah, she should have gotten a commendation for those things.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

Not Geordi, he has to command the USS Challenger. Beverly is put to Pasteur. Perhaps Captain Worf, Troi, or Wesley Crusher?

Wouldn't it be something if Geordi, Worf, and Beverly all got their introductions as captains of their respective ships by warping in, in some epic scene like Riker gets to do all the time.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Captain Riker warps in, Captain LaForge warps in, Captain Worf warps in, Captain Crusher warps in, Captain Riker warps out, Captain Troi warps in... then gives him back the seat.

 

[fireproof78]

Captain Riker warps in, Captain LaForge warps in, Captain Worf warps in, Captain Crusher warps in, Captain Riker warps out, Captain Troi warps in... then gives him back the seat.

"No, sir, all thirteen."