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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x09 - "Hide and Seek"

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I'm inclined to think that it makes sense that Seven would attempt to join Starfleet only to meet resistance in the Post-Dominion War Federation. Janeway was surprised that Starfleet was suspicious and uncomfortable with MAQUIS being part of the crew, let alone a liberated Borg drone who still maintained great pride in her status as a member of the Collective as well as a huge disdain of authority.

TORRES was someone who couldn't hack it in Starfleet due to her attitude, I can't imagine how well Seven would do.
However, I don't think of Icheb being in Starfleet as a continuity error. I'm inclined to think that while Seven didn't push the issue, Janeway ascending to be an Admiral meant that she could pull strings for him that didn't have as many issues. I think it fits Seven's personality that she might accept not being part of it but support him joining later.

After all, we have a lot of years to fill in the timeline on.

Seven was refused entry into SF yes, and by the time Janeway threatened SF with her resignation over it, Seven decided not to pursue the idea anymore (this indicates to me that Seven wanted to stop Janeway from going any further or her account.... and she joined the Fenris Rangers by then too).

One of the possible reasons why Seven may have been denied to be part of SF may have been exactly because of her disdain for authority.
Its also possible that Seven's 'interpretation' of SF's decision may not have had much to do with the fact she used to be Borg... or it may have factored into theier decision but wasn't a prevailing detail.

If you recall, when Icheb originally applied to be admitted into SF, he asked Seven to join him, but Seven told him she wasn't particularly interested (its also possible she changed her mind over time once VOY returned to the AQ).

Its possible that given their special circumstances, SF would have been more lenient and allowed Seven to join SF while VOY was still in the DQ because the ship would have needed more experienced officers if it took more time to get back home (like it took an extra 16 years from that point before future Admiral Janwaay changed the timeline) - and its also possible that this is why SF was more lenient on Icheb.
VOY needed more officers, and from SF's point of view, the ship was still about 30 000 Ly's away (it wasn't until the end of Q2 episode that we saw them pushed by Q closer to Earth by about 14 years because of what Janeway did for Junior).

So, in this instance, when the ship returned to Earth in 'Endgame', all of VOY crew service records were examined by SF. Its possible that given Seven's butting heads with Janeway and authority was more of a problem for them, and the fact she just barely started to operate on a more 'human level' (she wasn't butting heads as much in the last year or two) maybe just wasn't enough for them to admit her into SF (but I would be EXTREMELY disappointed that SF would discriminate against Seven just on the grounds of her being ex Borg).

And SF may not have had reservations about the Maqui on VOY... or at least, Hayes mentioned in his transmission to Janeway that he wanted to discuss 'status of the Maqui'... remember that Janeway mainly had an issue with that because she no longer considered the Maqui as Maqui, but SF crew... and also composed a response with Chakotay (which could have changed Hayes' mind about them), and Chakotay was seen as the Captain of the USS Protostar in 'Prodigy' (which is canon - and I was SO happy to see that - we need more of Chakotay in prominent position and to be used properly).

Then again, Chakotay, Torres and Paris all at least went through SF academy. Chaktoay already had a rank of Commander before being reinstated by Janeway, whereas Paris was given a field commission of Lt (he probably already had it before his 'incident' or was close to it - so again, simple re-instatement by Janeway and promotion - whereas Torres would have been the only one to have 'skipped' ranks and given a commission of Lt right off the bat - though to be fair, she didn't advance in rank for 7 years, so its likely that would have been considered her time of 'catching up' if she wanted to advance further when VOY returned).

But I would be of the opinion that the Maqui on VOY weren't seen as a threat anymore by the time the ship returned in Endgame, and to be fair, they ALL served mostly with distinction during their time in the DQ (plus the fact VOY's Doctor told SF originally what happened to the crew, Hayes' response I guess was understandable... Janeway merely 'corrected' the view that she saw the Maqui as separate of SF or UFP anymore in her communication with Hayes).

Most of the differences they had were left behind in the first year of their journey (so SF would have to take that into account)... and the Maqui were still ex Federation citizens... so, its likely the ones on VOY were all pardoned, and given what transpired with the Dominion War, the Maqui would have no recourse for revenge because Cardassia was ultimately beaten in the war (I wouldn't be surprised if some of the ex Maqui from VOY decided to go to Cardassia to try and help them build a better future - now THAT would have been behavioral progress and interesting - but admittedly, probably not for ALL of them).

Heck, even Torres managed to cooperate with a hologram of a female Cardassian engineer... she just had to get to know one which didn't share the military's tendencies.

I would surmise however, that most Maqui from VOY were just free to pursue their own things (if some wanted to join SF, I don't know if they even would have wanted to do that given that they were initially THRUSTED into it, but serving on VOY may have opened for them other opportunities)... and the ones with active field commissions like Chakotay, Torres and Paris (as brief as his Maqui excursion was) were retained in SF (would be nice to learn that both Paris and Torres had a hand in creating the Proto Warp for the Protostar).
 
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So many circular conversations about this, all of which seem to revolve around the assumption that Yvette being locked in that room was a regular occurence and not an emergency measure on that one very bad day when she had a manic episode that got both herself and her young son lost in dangerous subterranean tunnels for hours. By the time Maurice found them and pulled them out, it was probably late, they were all tired. He locked the door to keep her safe for the night, most likely hoping she'd be calmer in the morning, hoping he'd be able to persuade her to accept treatment in the morning. But before that could happen, Jean Luc unlocked the door and she used the opportunity to take her life, unable to bear it any longer. She didn't kill herself just because she'd been in a locked room for a few hours. She was already in that headspace (unbeknown to her husband, who was a flawed man trying to help without really knowing how, reacting based on his own personality and hangups) - the locked door simply delayed it for a while.

How did she manage to hang herself from very a very inaccessible place? The sheer logistics of getting to the highest point in a dome..

She could just as easily killed herself in her own room which was filled to the brim with STUFF.

Also why did he not appoint a personal assistant to watch over her?
 
I'm inclined to think that it makes sense that Seven would attempt to join Starfleet only to meet resistance in the Post-Dominion War Federation. Janeway was surprised that Starfleet was suspicious and uncomfortable with MAQUIS being part of the crew, let alone a liberated Borg drone who still maintained great pride in her status as a member of the Collective as well as a huge disdain of authority.

TORRES was someone who couldn't hack it in Starfleet due to her attitude, I can't imagine how well Seven would do.

However, I don't think of Icheb being in Starfleet as a continuity error. I'm inclined to think that while Seven didn't push the issue, Janeway ascending to be an Admiral meant that she could pull strings for him that didn't have as many issues. I think it fits Seven's personality that she might accept not being part of it but support him joining later.

After all, we have a lot of years to fill in the timeline on.

I need to summarize the issues which the writers need to account for and damages the brand.
My thoughts while watching the episode: What's the value of hiding the key inside the Elnor hologram vs. anywhere else? He's a program running in the ship's computer. How would defeating him in hand-to-hand combat reveal the code?

Why couldn't they use Not Laris' transporter to beam into the ship? Instead they're engaging in guerilla warefare with drones. Parlay. Nice Pirates of the Carribean reference. Why would the Borg queen fly away and wait for the Confederation to exist? She could just start assimilating Earth now, and then the rest of the alpha quadrant will fall.


Why doesn't Picard tell Soong about the future he comes from? Try to talk his way out of it...or make Soong realize what a terrible future comes from his legacy? Do modern firearms have laser sights that appear as beams in the air? That doesn't seem like a good design. I get they're trying to replicate the borg red lasers from TNG. I guess these borg soldiers can't assimilate others?

Why didn't Picard think of the tunnels before sending Raffi & Seven to fight the Borg? Interesting that Starfleet would reject Seven after everything she did to help Voyager get home (but still allow Icheb). I'd believe that prejudices against her made her feel unwelcome and pressured to leave, but heck, they let Worf in and humans really didn't like Klingons for a long time. Picard was fully BORGIFIED in tng!

Of course holo-Elnor wants a sword over a gun. Not sure why he's hiding. Rios tries to "Rewire the subroutines"? Such poor technobabble. "Bypass the security pathways" would have sounded so much smarter. Tricorders can extract bullets?

Yvette doesn't have a French accent. Jean-Luc doesn't have a French accent. Why does he call her "mamman" instead of "mum" or "mommy"? Picard and Not Laris find the well, but there's no hole in the board from when his foot went through as a young man. I guess someone repaired it?

Why is holo-Elnor afraid of bullets? Why is holo-Elnor wearing a mobile emitter? How do they even have one? Voyager's Dr. got his from the 29th century. I guess that's why he's afraid of bullets. Couldn't just use the holoprojectors on the ship...but then the Borg could just destroy those easily, I guess.


How does Holo-Elnor have the recollections of Elnor's final thoughts? I thought that the ship just scanned the visual aspects of the people, not their minds. This is confusing. But I guess it gives Raffi & Elnor their moment. Picard says that the right path goes towards the fields, but more Borg are coming from the right. Did they come into the tunnels from the field?


Why do the Borg that got beamed into the walls look like rock? The transporter doesn't convert them to rock. Why would they be beamed right where Picard & Laris are? Why not beam them into space, or deep underground, or just purge their patterns from the pattern buffers?

Why would any blows landed by the queen on Holo-Elnor hurt him? Seven knows that Jurarti is "in there" and "can fight", but when the mercenaries are beamed into the field, Seven declares that they aren't people anymore, they're Borg and starts shooting them.

Again, why is Borg Queen trying to get back to the Delta Quadrant? She can just assimilate Earth now! No Confederation, no defeat of the Borg! So the Borg's motivation has always been connection and loneliness, not the pursuit of perfection through assimilation.

I can accept that as a possible origin story (e.g. a lonely sole assimilating others in order to no longer be alone), but as the hive mind took over that can't be the sole Jurarti is defeating the Borg Queen through sad feelings just as the Borg Queen used happy feelings to take Jurarti over? When Jurarti was talking about salvation it suddenly made sense why those lights at the back of La Sirena look like stained glass in a church.


Why does Not Laris' computer speak in English instead of Romulan? Nobody got hurt by the exploding weapon? So they resolved the bit nit about Picard's mom having Picard say that he imagined her an old lady offering him tea. I guess the woman we saw in the TNG episode "Where No One Has Gone Before" was Picard's imaginary version? So did Queen Jurarti healing Seven restore her Borg implants, or did they fix time, restoring Seven to her regular self?

What about all the mercenaries that Queen Jurarti borgified and that they killed? Any butterfly effects there? So Jurarti is the new queen, and she's going to build a better Borg, and she's going to the be Borg queen we see in episode one of season two...but where did she get the "Look Up, Jean-Luc" line from? She was never present for any of Picard's backstories about his mom.
 
Why is holo-Elnor afraid of bullets? Why is holo-Elnor wearing a mobile emitter? How do they even have one? Voyager's Dr. got his from the 29th century. I guess that's why he's afraid of bullets. Couldn't just use the holoprojectors on the ship...but then the Borg could just destroy those easily, I guess.

Maybe when Q clicked his fingers and sent everyone back in time to 2024, he sent one extra ‘hidden’ character along for the ride, ready to be activated at just the right moment - The EMH from Voyager. The EMH could have been the Stargazer’s Doctor? Perhaps the Doctor is about to make another First Contact style cameo in this series or a spin off? The EMH mobile emitter could be an Easter egg. A hidden legacy character may have returned in plain sight and everyone has failed to notice it… because no one knows that the Doctor is there, maybe they will not activate him in the series final, when all along if only the knew it was him, they could have. :shrug:

Maybe he could have also saved ‘the original’ Elnor… :(
 
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I need to summarize the issues which the writers need to account for and damages the brand.

  1. He's running on a separate mobile emitter. Yes this raises further questions.
  2. Leaping directly into the lion's den while the lion's there is perhaps not tactically ideal.
  3. Soong wouldn't listen. / It depends how foggy it is. / They're rubbish Borg made with car battery nanoprobes.
    The plan was to split up. / It sucks.
  4. He's trained in the sword. / He's got a vulnerable emitter. / He's not talking to someone who'd understand what he's really doing. / Who even knows with the stuff Tallinn owns.
  5. Because that's what his friends call their mums. / The episode takes place in the past.
  6. Because he's wearing a mobile emitter. / He got it from the Confederation.
  7. The ship has brain scan tech for setting up the emergency holograms. / Raffi used the holograms to learn about Rios's past from their memories in season 1. / Who even knows?
  8. Because they're a little Borged up and it's dark. / Seven didn't want to accidentally beam them into people so she found the people and then beamed them away from them. / She was in a hurry.
  9. Was he hurt? / Would it have been better if she'd yelled 'these are still people, they can be saved!' right before her friends opened fire?
  10. She likes the Delta Quadrant / That's what Jurati says, the Borg Queen disagrees.
  11. There's no hive mind right now so it's all about what the individual at the core of the Borg wants.
  12. Universal translator. / They'd been firing a lot of shots and using up its fuel cell. / Yep. / She apparently gave her new implants that made her identical to how she looked when the Doctor tried to remove all her old ones... to fix a gut wound.
  13. The creation of the Jurati Queen seen on the Stargazer implies that their actions in the past always happened, meaning no butterfly effects at all. / The Borg Queen had a connection to the Federation Timeline Queen who assimilated Picard and took all his memories.

 
I need to summarize the issues which the writers need to account for and damages the brand.
My thoughts while watching the episode: What's the value of hiding the key inside the Elnor hologram vs. anywhere else? He's a program running in the ship's computer. How would defeating him in hand-to-hand combat reveal the code?

Why couldn't they use Not Laris' transporter to beam into the ship? Instead they're engaging in guerilla warefare with drones. Parlay. Nice Pirates of the Carribean reference. Why would the Borg queen fly away and wait for the Confederation to exist? She could just start assimilating Earth now, and then the rest of the alpha quadrant will fall.


Why doesn't Picard tell Soong about the future he comes from? Try to talk his way out of it...or make Soong realize what a terrible future comes from his legacy? Do modern firearms have laser sights that appear as beams in the air? That doesn't seem like a good design. I get they're trying to replicate the borg red lasers from TNG. I guess these borg soldiers can't assimilate others?

Why didn't Picard think of the tunnels before sending Raffi & Seven to fight the Borg? Interesting that Starfleet would reject Seven after everything she did to help Voyager get home (but still allow Icheb). I'd believe that prejudices against her made her feel unwelcome and pressured to leave, but heck, they let Worf in and humans really didn't like Klingons for a long time. Picard was fully BORGIFIED in tng!

Of course holo-Elnor wants a sword over a gun. Not sure why he's hiding. Rios tries to "Rewire the subroutines"? Such poor technobabble. "Bypass the security pathways" would have sounded so much smarter. Tricorders can extract bullets?

Yvette doesn't have a French accent. Jean-Luc doesn't have a French accent. Why does he call her "mamman" instead of "mum" or "mommy"? Picard and Not Laris find the well, but there's no hole in the board from when his foot went through as a young man. I guess someone repaired it?

Why is holo-Elnor afraid of bullets? Why is holo-Elnor wearing a mobile emitter? How do they even have one? Voyager's Dr. got his from the 29th century. I guess that's why he's afraid of bullets. Couldn't just use the holoprojectors on the ship...but then the Borg could just destroy those easily, I guess.


How does Holo-Elnor have the recollections of Elnor's final thoughts? I thought that the ship just scanned the visual aspects of the people, not their minds. This is confusing. But I guess it gives Raffi & Elnor their moment. Picard says that the right path goes towards the fields, but more Borg are coming from the right. Did they come into the tunnels from the field?


Why do the Borg that got beamed into the walls look like rock? The transporter doesn't convert them to rock. Why would they be beamed right where Picard & Laris are? Why not beam them into space, or deep underground, or just purge their patterns from the pattern buffers?

Why would any blows landed by the queen on Holo-Elnor hurt him? Seven knows that Jurarti is "in there" and "can fight", but when the mercenaries are beamed into the field, Seven declares that they aren't people anymore, they're Borg and starts shooting them.

Again, why is Borg Queen trying to get back to the Delta Quadrant? She can just assimilate Earth now! No Confederation, no defeat of the Borg! So the Borg's motivation has always been connection and loneliness, not the pursuit of perfection through assimilation.

I can accept that as a possible origin story (e.g. a lonely sole assimilating others in order to no longer be alone), but as the hive mind took over that can't be the sole Jurarti is defeating the Borg Queen through sad feelings just as the Borg Queen used happy feelings to take Jurarti over? When Jurarti was talking about salvation it suddenly made sense why those lights at the back of La Sirena look like stained glass in a church.


Why does Not Laris' computer speak in English instead of Romulan? Nobody got hurt by the exploding weapon? So they resolved the bit nit about Picard's mom having Picard say that he imagined her an old lady offering him tea. I guess the woman we saw in the TNG episode "Where No One Has Gone Before" was Picard's imaginary version? So did Queen Jurarti healing Seven restore her Borg implants, or did they fix time, restoring Seven to her regular self?

What about all the mercenaries that Queen Jurarti borgified and that they killed? Any butterfly effects there? So Jurarti is the new queen, and she's going to build a better Borg, and she's going to the be Borg queen we see in episode one of season two...but where did she get the "Look Up, Jean-Luc" line from? She was never present for any of Picard's backstories about his mom.

wow, what fun is it watching anything with this kind of perspective….? Since you standardly rate PIC episodes 1/10, you seem so hell bent on finding flaws and things to hate, I sincerely wonder why you put yourself through it…….
 
wow, what fun is it watching anything with this kind of perspective….? Since you standardly rate PIC episodes 1/10, you seem so hell bent on finding flaws and things to hate, I sincerely wonder why you put yourself through it…….

So the writers become aware and do hard work and polish.
 
French term.
Do modern firearms have laser sights that appear as beams in the air?
They can, yes.
I need to summarize the issues which the writers need to account for and damages the brand.
No need since there is no damage to the brand. Emphasis on both the word need and damage.

So the writers become aware and do hard work and polish.
Sent it directly to them then. They won't read it here.
 
French term.

They can, yes.

No need since there is no damage to the brand. Emphasis on both the word need and damage.


Sent it directly to them then. They won't read it here.

Tweet writers and production staff directly on Twitter and # or @ them if they have accounts, sometimes they reply or like posts. I don’t have an account myself but one of my friends tweeted Jeri Ryan (Seven of Nine) once and she liked his post. He screamed and it really did make his day. :bolian:
 
If enough criticism can be made then it will escape and make them aware.

Could you explain exploding gun scene on the writers behalf?

I'm still waiting on Trek to correct the whole "cell inside your DNA" mistake Beverly makes in "Genesis(TNG)." Been a wait of close to 30 years. Methinks we're going to be waiting on sci-fi/fantasy writers to correct all their weird technical errors.
 
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