I don't understand the hate Disco gets / still gets.

[ananta]

The point at issue wasn't whether it could be defined objectively.

The point at issue was whether a person could dislike the show because to them the writing is bad.

Playing the "let’s not pretend Star Trek in times past has been uniformly brilliant" card is a straw man. Heck, since I wasn't claiming that bad writing could be defined objectively, bringing that up is also a straw man.

Also, my post did not represent an attempt to enumerate the ways that I think the writing is bad. It was a declaration of the existence of that angle of criticism. The discussions I have participated in in which that topic has been materially discussed better represent my thoughts on it, and I certainly wasn't intending to recap them.

My response was a general one based on, as I said, something I’ve seen from many critics of the series. I just find it kind of meaningless if people don’t elaborate on why they think it’s “bad writing”. Taking a series I’m not a fan of, I’d never simply describe Voyager as badly written. It had some good writing, but I’d explain why I thought the show never believed in or capitalised on its premise, how network meddling made it unable to utilise much serialisation or to move beyond the sense of being “TNG 2.0” and I’d explain how I found the characterisation inconsistent with many characters poorly utilised. Whether people agree or disagree it opens the door to discussion. “Bad writing” doesn’t unless people can take a second to explain what that means. That’s all.

 

[Steve Roby]

Sorry, you all don't get to gatekeep what constitutes my personal experience of hatred.(...)

I'm going to guess we both have better things to do. Bye now.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I'm going to guess we both have better things to do. Bye now.

OK....

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I didn't like it as I found the writing poor, the characters dislikable and the whole thing felt like style over substance, I've not gone back to revisit it (despite being told S2 was better, etc) so don't think about it much these days as it doesn't impact on that what I do enjoy about Trek. I wanted to like it (I enjoyed Sonequa Martin-Green in TWD, Michelle Yeoh is just awesome, and yay LGBT was finally getting some representation (still think plastering that all over the press releases was a mistake, but that's another tangent altogether)) but I just couldn't get over the elements that just grated against me, so I gave up on it.

In recent years I've developed a policy that if I don't find one slither of something I really enjoy in a pilot episode (be it a character, theme, humour/drama/horror, anything at all that might hold my attention going forward) then I just pass on it, after suffering through a few shows I couldn't stand but was told were brilliant and had to watch and giving up after at least a season of misery, I've determined my time is too limited to spend on shows I just can't get into.

I've always tried to be honest and put across how I found the show, or how it resonated with me and haven't told people they're wrong for enjoying it if they do, yet I've still found myself being labelled a "toxic fan". Other than Lower Decks (still not seen Prodigy as it's not available in the UK) the modern era of Trek isn't one I find myself having the same level of enjoyment I get from the likes of DS9, even Picard S1 was a bit 'meh' (having to wait for the second season to eventually be released in full before starting it so I can't really comment).

At the end of the day, its just a TV show, so not worth raising the blood pressure over when you can just not watch it.

 

[fireproof78]

recent years I've developed a policy that if I don't find one slither of something I really enjoy in a pilot episode (be it a character, theme, humour/drama/horror, anything at all that might hold my attention going forward) then I just pass on it, after suffering through a few shows I couldn't stand but was told were brilliant and had to watch and giving up after at least a season of misery, I've determined my time is too limited to spend on shows I just can't get into.

Same here. There is a reason why I say that if something is not enjoyable stop watching. Star Trek is not special in that regard.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I have nitpicks here and there with Discovery but overall I loved season 1 to 3 and it was something new as well which was a kind of bonus. I really don't understand the level of hate this show gets, why can't some sections of the fanbase just let others enjoy this and not try and ruin their fun?

Isn't that the very spirit of IDIC, and of Star Trek?

This was the original post. Nothing here is about rabid, frothing hatred. Actually it comes across as someone asking "why do so many fans hate Enterprise?" Hate being "to strongly dislike to the point that nothing about it is worthwhile to them."

I will admit, I have ZERO contact with hate groups of fandom. I go onto message boards to chat about my favorite shows with likeminded people. Not to debate or argue, although that does happen, but to share my love with others who love the same thing. I find that fun. So, obviously I must have missed the point.

I do agree the characters in DISC are primarily whiny gits and I bailed two episodes into the 4th season.

However, these days, as social media has become the center of the lives of basement dwelling bottom feeders, posts are made by emotionally disconnected people can't control their own feelings. They fire off hate and froth because they have a forum to. So much of it is over the top exaggeration, like everyone is just starting middle school.

People need to step away from the computers and TVs and go out into the light. Throw a frisbee around and make some actual in-person friends so they can learn how to talk to people.

 

[fireproof78]

However, these days, as social media has become the center of the lives of basement dwelling bottom feeders, posts are made by emotionally disconnected people can't control their own feelings. They fire off hate and froth because they have a forum to. So much of it is over the top exaggeration, like everyone is just starting middle school.

High school and college are the same way.

People need to step away from the computers and TVs and go out into the light. Throw a frisbee around and make some actual in-person friends so they can learn how to talk to people.

Ok, I'm outside; now what?

In all seriousness, there is an actual psychological effect in chatting online vs. in real life. So, while I can be a pro at in person online takes more effort.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Ok, I'm outside; now what?

Soon as I'm done with my homework, I'll come by with a frisbee.

 

[Sci]

I have nitpicks here and there with Discovery but overall I loved season 1 to 3 and it was something new as well which was a kind of bonus. I really don't understand the level of hate this show gets, why can't some sections of the fanbase just let others enjoy this and not try and ruin their fun?

Isn't that the very spirit of IDIC, and of Star Trek?

In my experience, there are two different kinds of DIS critics. One has reasonable criticisms based upon genuine flaws and/or reasonable elements of subjective tastes... and one engages in a level of vitriol that makes no sense until you realize that, whether consciously or not, what they're really reacting to is the fact that Star Trek: Discovery is a series that does not center the experiences of cisgender heterosexual white men.

 

[Vger23]

In my experience, there are two different kinds of DIS critics. One has reasonable criticisms based upon genuine flaws and/or reasonable elements of subjective tastes... and one engages in a level of vitriol that makes no sense until you realize that, whether consciously or not, what they're really reacting to is the fact that Star Trek: Discovery is a series that does not center the experiences of cisgender heterosexual white men.

Maybe i'm just naïve and blind, but I honestly don't think that's as often the case as we may be conditioned to think. I really don't Yes, there are some loud idiots online who certainly advance that perception...but I think there are a lot of people who have HATED genre products in the last 25 years, and it has nothing to do with bigotry.

Some people HATED Nemesis. Like really HATED It., not just found it objectionable...but honestly were offended by it. That has nothing to do with bigotry.

Some people HATED the Kelvinverse films. Like spitting venom hatred, especially back in the day. Again, nothing to do with it.

Some people HATED Star Trek Enterprise when it premiered. Vomit and fece-flinging was rampant. Nothing to do with it.

I think we need to take a more holistic look at how we view people and their opinions, especially when their way of expressing their feelings is a little "immature / passionate," and not immediately jump to "obviously these people are racist homophobe white supremecist assholes..." because historical evidence doesn't support that intense hatred for franchise products requires that element.

I feel like we're conditioned to see racists and bigots everywhere. Respectfully, we need to be better than that, and we need to be more thoughtful. I generally try to stay out of discussions about cultural / political stuff here, because I come here to escape, not engage in that stuff. But...I feel I need to gently and respectfully say my opinion here.

Don't let a few loud jackasses online and on YouTube lead you to believe that people who react strongly to something they are passionate about are driven by bigotry. There surely are some, but I don't think it's the numbers some of you are thinking.... Some of those "haters" may be annoying, grating, insufferable assholes....but that doesn't make them bigots.

Just give it some thought is all I ask. I love this board and appreciate all of you....so take it for what it's worth.

 

[fireproof78]

Just give it some thought is all I ask.

Always.

 

[BillJ]

Hate? No. That would mean it did something strong enough to illicit an emotional response. The show is just very, very bland, like rice with no flavoring. It is a shame, because they cast a great group of actors.

 

[fireproof78]

Rice is amazing. I eat it almost every day.

 

[BillJ]

Rice is amazing. I eat it almost every day.

I love rice. But I'm not a fan of it plain, there is no flavor there.

 

[fireproof78]

I love rice. But I'm not a fan of it plain, there is no flavor there.

Viva la differance.

 

[gweeps]

I probably can't add any criticisms for my begrudging acceptance of Discovery that haven't already been thought, said or written. I've come to the reluctant conclusion that what I like about the series outweighs the annoying and embarrassing parts enough to continue watching until the end, which hopefully will be next year.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's one of the current shows, and people always hate the current shows. Once it ends and a new series replaces it, we'll hear all the same stuff about how the new show sucks, pisses on Gene's Vision, too woke or whatever with everyone now claiming that "man, Disco was an amazing show after all."

Trek Fandom. This is the Way.

It's been replaced twice, and about to be replaced thrice.

 

[fireproof78]

I probably can't add any criticisms for my begrudging acceptance of Discovery that haven't already been thought, said or written. I've come to the reluctant conclusion that what I like about the series outweighs the annoying and embarrassing parts enough to continue watching until the end, which hopefully will be next year.

Star Trek franchise in a nutshell.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Any day now Disco will be canceled /s

 

[dupersuper]

In my experience, there are two different kinds of DIS critics. One has reasonable criticisms based upon genuine flaws and/or reasonable elements of subjective tastes... and one engages in a level of vitriol that makes no sense until you realize that, whether consciously or not, what they're really reacting to is the fact that Star Trek: Discovery is a series that does not center the experiences of cisgender heterosexual white men.

Are you encountering the second type here or elsewhere? Whenever I do see posters like the latter on TBS, their username generally have a line through them before too long.