When did the Janeway hatred truly start to coalesce?

It does. Which is why things need to be done with the maximum attention to security.

 

EXACTLY!

Never mind the fact that there are people who hack into things to do a specific bad thing to someone. Some people hack just to cause chaos.



And yes, I know THE TERMINATOR was a movie, but the lesson should still be learned. Giving a computer complete and total control without the ability to manual override is dangerous.

 

Of course it’s dangerous, but is it more dangerous than giving the same control to humans?

 

I agree that a lot of humans are, to put it mildly, idiots.

But a computer can't think for itself. It doesn't have judgment. At least a human brain can't be hacked by a programmed virus.

A machine can only do what it is programmed to do. Humans can learn.

 

*aggressive finger wag*

I blame Janeway: she's behind this.

Somehow.

 

This is when the Janeway Hatred Truly Started to Coalesce.

Mark this well; a day that will live in infamy!

 

Have any of you introduced a Star Trek newbie to Voyager and then observed their initial reactions to Janeway's decisions? I would love to know how people ignorant of Kathryn Janeway's reputation in the fan base/the internet in general regarded her command style.

 

Only one I heard said that she tried to be overly masculine. I didn't get that from her, but who knows what she was like in the episode(s) he saw.

 

@Oddish can't speak for your friend, but I can say that women, as I've personally experienced on numerous occasions, who are not trying to be feminine are often accused of being masculine

 

No but that's a really good question. I recently discovered that one of my colleagues loves Galaxy Quest but hasn't watched any Trek (I was shocked) and I've tried to use the "Honest Trailers" TNG youtube video as a gateway to getting him hooked. Unfortunately he said it just made him appreciate Galaxy Quest more.

I've heard people who don't watch the show and have seen things about it on the internet say Janeway is a bad leader because of the many episodes where they try to get home but don't, like "False Profits", but I think that's actually a result of the show is set in the Delta Quadrant, we know they aren't going to get home before at least halfway through the final season but the characters don't know that so they have to keep trying to get home sooner, but they will fail because it's too soon for them to go home. "False Profits" in my opinion is the worst one in that category and that problem would be less obvious if the wormhole didn't appear until late into the episode.

 

I love Galaxy Quest because it is a parody on Star Trek. (I.e. in order to fully appreciate it and the comments it makes, I'd think you'd have to be exposed to Star Trek first). But that's just my take.

Being stranded in the DQ is part of the show's premise so of course trying to get home before the final inevitably fails. Saying Janeway is a bad leader because of that is akin to saying Kirk and Picard were lousy explorers, since even after their travels, most of the Galaxy still wasn't explored. It's a premise of Star Trek there will always be more exploration to do.

 

Ha! I think you're right. Janeway's position on her gender versus her role is perfectly summed up by her statement early on: "'Ma'am' is acceptable in a crunch, but I prefer 'captain'."

Like another show that was central to 20th century pop culture.

 

While I get why Janeway said that, I feel it called too much attention to her gender.

Best way I can illustrate my point... Kira was pretty much always addressed as "yes, sir". But she never felt the need to correct anyone. Why? Because the writers made Kira a person first and a woman second. Kira never needed to wield that correction because her character was strong enough to let her actions and values speak for her.

Granted, Janeway said that in the pilot, so doing that right out of the gate makes sense and to be fair, it was never addressed again. But I think starting off the series with such a remark might have made some audience members already feel off put by her.

 

Yes, in the real world we know that there's going to be a reason why Our Heroes Fail to Get Home (again)(TM), but there are better and worse reasons for them to fail, and two Ferengi escaping Tuvok's security team and managing to destabilize the wormhole is among the worst reasons for them to fail. It may not reflect on Janeway as a captain, but it certainly didn't make Our Heroes look great either.

By contrast, "Timeless" is a great example of Our Heroes doing everything right and still failing to get home, but in a way that doesn't make anyone look bad (that I recall).

 

In general, a lot of audience members disliked the "calling women 'sir'" thing (I know I did), but it was Starfleet protocol. Since they had decided to back away from it in "Voyager", they needed to have a person address Janeway as per protocol, and have her correct them. This was done nice and low-key, with a quick bit of dialogue. The same type of thing that could have corrected a legion of other inconsistencies just as easily.

 

One of the reasons why they didn't look bad in "TIMELESS" is not just because it was a far better episode, but they did at least knock a lot of years off their journey.

Like I said, I get why they did it, and for the most part agree with it, but I just felt it called attention to something that didn't need to be called upon.

Besides, in later seasons, Janeway was occasionally addressed as 'sir' during some attacks, anomalies, etc. It was pretty rare, but it happen... even Tuvok did it a few times. (I think he even did it in an earlier season, though I can't recall the exact episode right now.)

 

True, but I think the most important reason is that it didn't make Our Heroes look incompetent in the process. I guess it's possible the Ferengi had some ingenious way of getting back to their shuttle, but we don't see that, and the sequence as played out is just awful. IIRC I was reasonably enjoying the episode (and appreciated the callback to 'The Price') up to that point.

 

I'm not so sure. I mean, think about it. They spend months building this new engine. According to Torres, they test it 'molecule by molecule'. Everybody rejoices and is convinced this will get them home. Then Paris -not even an engineer- gets a bad feeling about it and runs a few simulations. All of which end in disaster.
I mean, shouldn't they have run those simulations and discover these problems in a much earlier phase? Like, from before they even started building the engine, and when they were building the engine, continually refining them, rather than just 'the night before'?