From your lips to Akiva and Terry's ears.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Trek tackled racism once by having two aliens with different sides of their face painted black hating each other. It's not always been subtle with it's topic.
The Ten Forward thing:
I say, AGAIN, that it couldn't have been named/located where it was as a tribute to Guinan's Earth bar because the bar was there before Guinan was! (That and the location of the lounge just makes sense for a place for one.)
In "All Good Things..." Picard asks Troi what happened when he first boarded the ship and she says "there was a reception in Ten Forward..."
Guinan didn't know Tasha.
Ten Forward wasn't named for Guinan it was named because of its location on the ship.
The reference of its in the bar in LA in just a dumb wink at the audience.
Ten Forward was there before Guinan and was named for its location on the ship, a place where it makes the most sense to have a central gathering area on the ship. (Though not the intended use of the sauce rim from the real-world designers of the ship.)
We're talking about the franchise with the half-black, half-white face guys. If that's the low bar, I would say this episode was leaps and bounds above it in terms of subtlety.
Nowhere is it written that social commentary has to be sanitized and delivered with kid gloves. That being said, the show's depiction of ICE was fairly low-key and could have gone far darker and still been plausible compared to its real-world counterpart.
That's not remotely true. Lots of story turns are entirely predictable or expected yet still well-written. Not everything needs to be constant M. Night Shyamalan twists and Abrams mystery boxing.
It's lazy to assume that just because someone disagrees with you it means they didn't read or deliberately ignored what you wrote.
Besides the fact that they specifically explained exactly what ICE was in the episode, and it's been a pretty well-publicized and infamous agency judging by the international response to its actions here (on the board) and elsewhere in international media, and similar government responses to immigrants and refugees have been happening around the world in recent years to make it a relevant subject everywhere, and everyone in the audience now has Google at their fingertips to answer any question at a moments notice; besides all that, the context of what was going on and who was doing what was plainly evident by the events of the episode.
In fairness, he was saying that Seven and Young Guinan are both shown in scenes where they are driving or about to drive cars, not him confusing Guinan and Raffi as the same person. Guinan has a vintage brown Ford Bronco which she obviously intends to drive away in.Wait wait wait. "Young Guinan?"
Guinan is nowhere in that scene. Seven steals an LAPD car with Raffi Musiker, a principal cast member who has been on the show since the first season. Raffi is played by Michelle Hurd, a 55-year-old actor who looks like this:
Young Guinan is played by Ito Aghayere, a 33-year-old actor who looks like this:
Did you seriously just whine about how you think PIC's social commentary is "hamfisted, poorly written nonsense" whose writers "just say what they think" and "clearly have an issue" with ICE and made the episode "just a soapbox"...
... and then immediately confuse two entirely different black actors who look nothing like one-another and were very clearly in different locations and addressed by different character names??
Christ, you can't even make this shit up. Your dogwhistle is broken, sir.
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2 Corinthians 10:4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
Revelation 10:4, ESV: And when the seven thunders had sounded, I was about to write, but I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said, and do not write it down.”
John 10:4, NIV: When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.
Yes, but why not name your bar on a starship to reference serendipitously another bar you once worked at before that perhaps you have fond memories of?
Nope, because I never noticed it.
It seems like a much needed wake up call. We're destroying our world, authoritarian, racism, extreme income inequality, inhumane conditions, etc. We're on track towards the Confederation.
But you may well be right that they won't do it. But I love the idea as a twist, playing on our expectations.
For all we know with what was shown in Star Trek: First Contact, the Borg sphere debris burns up in the atmosphere and no pieces made it to Earth. What a canonized was the fact that debris did in fact make it to Earth and landed in the Arctic. (and I stayed is as much in my original post.)
Indeed. It's just a fun little reference, not a cause and effect. Kind of like "Denis the Menance."
I think Guinan lived at 10 Forward Street.
She was forced to sell, or it was seized or the owner who is someone else sold it.
If she is identified as homeless, or jobless, they will drag her back to 10 Forward and force her to stay there, at gunpoint.
She was forced to sell, or it was seized or the owner who is someone else sold it.
If she is identified as homeless, or jobless, they will drag her back to 10 Forward and force her to stay there, at gunpoint.
Were they? Many of the allegories are hardly subtle and often contrived. I'm doing a Voyager rewatch and just saw Nothing Human - case in point. Not to mention that there are a number of examples of bluntly calling out contemporary issues - racism in Far Beyond the Stars and Badda-Bing Badda-Bang, environmental issues in IV, etc.
[quote And it's very Americanly blunt. Sure the writers are American predominantly I guess. But someone said to me "What is this ICE stuff they keep on about they seem obsessed?" The whole thing is predicated on an American world view, and it's not even done in a way that wider audiences an appreciate easily.[/QUOTE]
Trek has always been heavily American-centric. Starfleet has an America - World Police vibe, especially in TOS. Visits to earth are almost invariably to the US. A season of Enterprise was built around 9/11. It's an American show with largely American writers and a substantial portion of its fanbase is in the US (look at the split of box office takings for the pre-Kelvin films, for instance).
Well, he specifically referred to Guinan and Seven,the car chase and how he switched off.
Seems to me he's putting Guinan and Seven in a car together and involved in a car chase. Somethings that Guinan was shown not to be part of. And since she's been a resident of the Earth since before the invention of the auto I can't see why anyone could object to Guinan driving. IIRC, Guinan doesn't even walk to her car until the car chases is well underway and maybe over.
I said the same thing in a previous post. It's a silly complaint.
It seems like, almost, Oxford Comma kind of situation, you kinda have to read through the sentence into the intent behind the poster and assume they didn't confuse two characters.
He was bothered by the portrayal of Young Guinan AND, separately, Seven driving a car like a professional stunt driver "just like that."
He was bothered by the portrayal of Young Guinan AND, separately, Seven driving a car like a professional stunt driver "just like that."
That's how I read it, yeah.
THE BAR WAS THERE BEFORE GUINAN!!! She couldn't have named it, it was named before she came aboard!
It's definitely darn near everywhere, sadly. But I've been all over this crazy country called the United States, and I've not seen such a concentration of homeless folks quite like Los Angeles'.
Maybe not the bar. But it was probably an observation lounge or something.
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