Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"

[BillJ]

One of the best things about TWOK is how much Kirk has changed as he reaches his midlife crisis. Were he the same James Kirk who marooned Khan and his followers on Ceti Alpha V then it wouldn't be half as interesting a movie.

Guinan A meets Picard in 1893, a man from Earth's future, one that gives her hope for the species future, which makes the road she travels a little more bearable.
Guinan B doesn't meet the man from the future. Watches as humanity continues to make the same mistakes over and over thus becoming jaded about the prospects of humanity.

I can see the reasoning around her portrayal in the current story.

 

[cooleddie74]

It's like character journeys in other franchises. In TWD Negan is practically the embodiment of pure evil for several seasons. Then he's captured and immobilized and we learn his backstory. How he was just a blue collar husband with a loving wife and dreams for a future for them both until the Apocalypse struck her down and left him struggling to carry on in a world that had been almost completely turned upside down both in microcosm and as a whole.

Eventually his anger, grief and desire to get back at the world that took his wife turn him into a ruthless killer and sadist.

 

[Vale]

A time-sensitive alien, very fond of humans and possibly at times stranded on Earth, and who throughout their centuries-long life seems to have both a different physical appearance and different personalities... no... not getting it.

 

[Dukhat]

I would gently suggest that nobody who is a fan of a series that includes episodes like "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" can reasonably call the social commentary in PIC "heavy-handed."



I'm sorry, but the level of naivete here about what it's like to be the victim of racism is profound. This is an exceedingly thoughtless take. I highly urge you to sit down and really imagine what it's like to live in the U.S. as a visibly black person, day in and day out, for your entire life. And then imagine 130 years of that. It's absolutely not that simple.

And how do you know that I’m not an African American myself? Are you? Does it really matter in a discussion about a fictional alien character?

I would highly urge you to sit down and re-read my posts about the subject. I was making a point that a fictional character was acting out of character from what we are used to. People then pointed out to me such nonsense like ‘she looks African American’ when that has nothing to do with the point I was making. Guinan is not black. She is not an African American. She is an alien who owns a bar on Earth in the year 2024 for whatever reason she has for being on Earth at that time. We’ve never once seen any evidence in the past (or future) that she has been oppressed because of the color of her skin, until now apparently. Maybe she has been hanging around on Earth for the last 130 years and has faced off-screen racial oppression. But we don’t know that, at least not yet. For all we know she’s only been on Earth for a year or two.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Maybe at the end of the show, Jean Luc stays in the 21st to get the farm back in shape before the Picards return?

Ever since Elnor's death, and Rios' burgeoning relationship with Teresa and her son, I can't shake the feeling that all of the characters who have travelled back to 2024 will stay there - and once the timeline is restored, new & 'unspoiled' versions of those same characters will exist in 2401, none the wiser as to what has happened with their counterparts.

I mean, does La Sirena seriously look like it will ever be spaceworthy again?

It would also feed into the growing suspicion that

Spoiler

the Borg Queen that barged her way onto the Stargazer is actually Jurati.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I would gently suggest that nobody who is a fan of a series that includes episodes like "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" can reasonably call the social commentary in PIC "heavy-handed."



I'm sorry, but the level of naivete here about what it's like to be the victim of racism is profound. This is an exceedingly thoughtless take. I highly urge you to sit down and really imagine what it's like to live in the U.S. as a visibly black person, day in and day out, for your entire life. And then imagine 130 years of that. It's absolutely not that simple.

Ever since Elnor's death, and Rios' burgeoning relationship with Teresa and her son, I can't shake the feeling that all of the characters who have travelled back to 2024 will stay there - and once the timeline is restored, new & 'unspoiled' versions of those same characters will exist in 2401, none the wiser as to what has happened with their counterparts.

I mean, does La Sirena seriously look like it will ever be spaceworthy again?

It would also feed into the growing suspicion that

Spoiler

the Borg Queen that barged her way onto the Stargazer is actually Jurati.

They don't need to go to space to time travel forwards. Khan and Ralph Offenhouse C.E.O, from 3 decades earlier, just used contemporary stasis tubes to sleep their way to the Future.

Or stick a screw driver in the back of Picard's head, and turn his immortality back on... Actually if he's in Confederate Picard's body I expect he's already immortal, and absent mindedly failed to notice his super strength.

 

[thribs]

Strange they made the Picard ancestor a women with the Picard surname. Their children usually take their father’s surname. I know that’s not always the case but they could have kept it a secret with her having a different surname and reveal at the end that she is related. Similar to how they did Valeria Williams in the Enterprise novels.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Or stick a screw driver in the back of Picard's head, and turn his immortality back on... Actually if he's in Confederate Picard's body I expect he's already immortal, and absent mindedly failed to notice his super strength.

Picard can't "turn on" immortality and super strength that he never had in the first place.

Admiral Picard definitely did not have either of those things, and I doubt General Picard did either - otherwise there'd have been a whole army of them. Because you know the Confederation would have jumped on that possibility.

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

Strange they made the Picard ancestor a women with the Picard surname. Their children usually take their father’s surname. I know that’s not always the case but they could have kept it a secret with her having a different surname and reveal at the end that she is related. Similar to how they did Valeria Williams in the Enterprise novels.

She isn’t his true ancestor. As described in his Starfleet Academy speech in The Star Gazer, Renée is Jean-Luc’s great-great cousin, and not someone he descends directly from, but someone with a shared ancestor.

 

[UssGlenn]

Sure. But wouldn't such a reset of pre April 15th 2024 events also erase the actions of Picard & Co in that era, including them them righting the chances?

No, the actions of travelers from erased timelines are not erased as they are now part of the past. See Future Janeway's actions to get Voyager home early, which still happened even though our Janeway will never go back in time.

Strange they made the Picard ancestor a women with the Picard surname. Their children usually take their father’s surname. I know that’s not always the case but they could have kept it a secret with her having a different surname and reveal at the end that she is related. Similar to how they did Valeria Williams in the Enterprise novels.

They call her an ancestor in the preview I think, but she is certainly the great great Cousin he mentioned in his Academy speech.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You can't give synth-Picard immortality and super strength that he never had in the first place.

That was Alton Soongs body.

He gave it to Picard.

Alton didn't need super strength to fight Klingons, he needed Superstrength to make love to all the other androids.

And immortality was his whole gig.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Alton didn't need super strength to fight Klingons, he needed Superstrength to make love to all the other androids.

Tasha didn't have such strength when she hooked up with Data...

 

[Guy Gardener]

No, the actions of travelers from erased timelines are not erased as they are now part of the past. See Future Janeway's actions to get Voyager home early, which still happened even though our Janeway will never go back in time.



They call her an ancestor in the preview I think, but she is certainly the great great Cousin he mentioned in his Academy speech.

Unfortunately time travel rules change depending on who is writing the script.

It's a bullshit inconsistency provided to us by over paid lazy pikers.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Tasha didn't have such strength when she hooked up with Data...

And he ghosted her.

You ever made love to someone fragile?

It's annoying to go at half speed and not throw her up against a wall when the moment calls for it.

First time Buffy and Spike had sex they demolished a house. They fucked it to rubble.

 

[UssGlenn]

Unfortunately time travel rules change depending on who is writing the script.

It's a bullshit inconsistency provided to us by over paid lazy pikers.

Name one time the characters forget about the existence of a character who came back in time and changed the future.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Name one time the characters forget about the existence of a character who came back in time and changed the future.

Guinin forgot she met Picard in 1893, because she didn't meet Picard in 1893, because the Federation no longer exists in the 2360s.

 

[UssGlenn]

Guinin forgot she met Picard in 1893, because she didn't meet Picard in 1893, because the Federation no longer exists in the 2360s.

That's the opposite of what I asked. She doesn't remember Picard because Q changed the timeline and that event never happened. We were talking about characters erasing their own existence (and actions in the present) by preventing the future they came from. That doesn't happen in Star Trek, because it's a paradox.

 

[SJGardner]

Strange they made the Picard ancestor a women with the Picard surname. Their children usually take their father’s surname. I know that’s not always the case but they could have kept it a secret with her having a different surname and reveal at the end that she is related. Similar to how they did Valeria Williams in the Enterprise novels.

Even if she weren't the great-great-cousin Picard mentioned (and thus not actually his ancestor), she could already be married to a Picard in 2024 and having taken on his name.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I’m not buying this idea that Guinan doesn’t remember Picard because Q changed the future. In Yesterday’s Enterprise she remembered erased timelines.

 

[Airmandan]

We're gonna need a whole new DTI novel just to get the timeline all straightened out after this.