This. Somehow I'm viewed as white (you can judge from my profile pic) but my brother isn't.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
You're Armenian correct? Or is it Persian?
The picture of Thompson and Thatcher posted by Lea a few posts down rules.
TV Fanatic is calling Not!Laris
Tallinn. I don't know where they got that info from.
https://www.tvfanatic.com/gallery/tallinn-star-trek-picard-s2e4/
https://www.tvfanatic.com/2022/03/star-trek-picard-season-2-episode-4-review-watcher/
Maybe another Amazon X-Ray leak like Renee Picard?
https://www.tvfanatic.com/gallery/tallinn-star-trek-picard-s2e4/
https://www.tvfanatic.com/2022/03/star-trek-picard-season-2-episode-4-review-watcher/
Maybe another Amazon X-Ray leak like Renee Picard?
I'm good just rolling with it.
Ha! I love that this "not complicated" explanation requires multiple charts.
The whole Young Guinan thing reminds me of a Hollywood Reporter showrunners roundtable they did a few years back. The showrunners were asked what audience reaction prompts them to feel like an episode or story was a failure. I think it was the King's (creators of "Good Wife"/"Good Fight") who gave the response, that it's OK if the audience has a negative reaction to the substance of a story -- that would not be considered a failure, as long as they believed in the story they were telling.
But what they DID consider a failure was when a lot of the audience just didn't get something -- when the creative team thought they had transmitted a piece of information, and large numbers of people just didn't get it. That was when feedback would make them feel like they failed. IIRC, all the other showrunners participating agreed with that.
So, by that standard, this timeline plotting was a failure. Yes, yes, I know we have many here eager to crow about their brilliance in getting it immediately
, but I'd say there's been at least as many, and probably more, posts baffled by it.
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I doubt it's a might.
Persian American. Half anyway. My father came here in the '70s.
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Is there an "airtight" time travel episode of Star Trek? I've always accepted the occasional flub is just part of the game.
In Europe I find it's latin Europe that is the odd one. In America Latinx is a clearly defined minority with South American heritage but in Europe they can both be "white" or not depending on the context of the issue.
Another tricky one is trying to explain to people a situation like Ireland where white people were oppressed by colonialism. During my time in London English people were all sorts of things from baffled to angry when I tried to explain that my cultural heritage felt closer to Jamaican or Indian than it did English.
Sorry it's all a bit off topic but I find it very interesting.
Not quite. Latines have heritage from Mexico, Central America, South America, or the West Indies, and while definitions differ (and terms like Hispanic, Latino/a, Latinx, Latine), it's normally limited to those whose culture are heavily influenced by colonization by Spain and Portugal. Which is why Latines do not normally include Haitians, but do include Dominicans, even though it's the same island.
"Racially" Latines can be of European, African, and Indigenous American descent, and significantly a mix of all three.
There might be, but it's true the vast majority have flaws. But I can't think of any other time travel episodes where the flaws in the plotting pushed me out of it to this extent while I was watching it. Usually, the inconsistencies are more well disguised and the scene-to-scene handoff smoothly carries me right over them. By contrast, this was like slamming into a brick wall.
Oh wait, I can go look at the complete list of time travel episodes that we just played as a Most Disliked elimination game in General Trek and actually see if there were any I would consider worse... (goes to check)
OK, there were three! "Fury", "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night", and Disco's season 2 plan to go to the future to escape an immortal lifeform.
So, for me personally, of the 82 Star Trek episodes to involve time travel plotting, the Young Guinan thing is among the bottom 4.
I just chalked it up to timey-wimey and moved on.
It doesn't need to be airtight, it just needs to be explained in some way. Now that I know the intent of the creators as to how the timeline works I'm fine with it...but it might have been nice for them to make that clear in the show itself. And I don't mean "the clues are there for people who aren't stupid".
Guinan explains in the movie what makes Picard and Kirk so unique in the Nexus. Everyone else in the Nexus is just an "echo". Their actual selves were pulled back out (eg. Guinan and Soren), but an echo of them is trapped there, and they will always yearn to come back to the Nexus. But Picard is still whole. The only one like him is Kirk. Kirk is the only one able to leave of his own accord to help him to thwart Soren.
We weren't given much time for onscreen eye batting, but you can bet those characters are still batting away.
It's interesting that Guinan tells Picard that if he goes to the Nexus he's not going to care about Soran or the Enterprise or anything, he'll only care about the Nexus. And then when Picard does end up in the Nexus one of the first things he asks Guinan is about how to get out. I guess his willpower is stronger than Guinan's.
V
Vale
Guest
It's interesting that Guinan tells Picard that if he goes to the Nexus he's not going to care about Soran or the Enterprise or anything, he'll only care about the Nexus. And then when Picard does end up in the Nexus one of the first things he asks Guinan is about how to get out. I guess his willpower is stronger than Guinan's.
I don't think it's his willpower exactly, more that what Picard wants from life wasn't something the Nexus was able to offer combined with an extremely strong sense of duty. Same with Kirk. And we see both Picard and Kirk waver.
Guinan didn't factor in what an irritating little gits Picards family would be. No wonder he wanted to run after seeing the horrors of a never ending Christmas with that posh kidIt's interesting that Guinan tells Picard that if he goes to the Nexus he's not going to care about Soran or the Enterprise or anything, he'll only care about the Nexus. And then when Picard does end up in the Nexus one of the first things he asks Guinan is about how to get out. I guess his willpower is stronger than Guinan's.
This is a much young Guinan who has not yet travelled to 1893 San Francisco as an older woman, nor the Guinan who will be with El-Aurian refugees in 2293 ("Generations"). Obviously, there has been some "to and fro" with Earth over the centuries.
As I said, Guinan has an echo still in the Nexus. Picard and Kirk are still whole. Their experience is different to Guinan's and Soren's.
This is the Punk's third appearance in film:
ST IV punk's cameo in a "Spider-man" movie by Ian McLean, on Flickr
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And I wonder why that very specific change occurred? Hmmm. What could have possibly happened that made him reconsider how to respond to that specific situation?
It's alright. You can admit that the episode is inconsistent. Time travel is tough to portray in a consistent manner that creates a good story.
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