If the change happened in 2024, there should have been no Kirk and Spock (or very different versions) to go back and save the planet from the Whale Probe in 2284.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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If the change happened in 2024, there should have been no Kirk and Spock (or very different versions) to go back and save the planet from the Whale Probe in 2284.
Star Trek was doing that decades before P+ was a thing.
Nearly every main character in TNG had some sort of tragedy in their backstory. Either from the very start or added along the way.
This is an episode that remembered Jackson Roykirk, the bus punk from TVH, and the name of the techbro from Past Tense, among other things. I find it...highly unlikely...they forgot Time's Arrow existed.
Also they remembered Guinan was on Earth
If the Confederation has the resources and technology to beat the entire Borg Collective I have a feeling the Whale Probe was likely blown to smithereens before it got anywhere near Sector 001.
If so, aren’t the writers kinda sending the wrong message? The only way to be safe is to be evil...
Money in Guinan returning a zapping Q with some power like it looked like she was about to do in "Q-Who?"
Well, ST has done powerful fascist empires before (like the Mirror Universe's Terran Empire). They seem stable and unbeatable for a while but usually end up collapsing violently, so they don't win out in the long term. The Prime Universe/Timeline Federation still exists in the 32nd century though.
That’s not what the scene implies, though. The whole point of it was to show that the same punk that Kirk and Spock encountered in 1986 hasn’t changed one bit in almost 40 years, with the exception that he now turns his boom box off if someone yells at him, because he remembers what happened to him the last time someone had the guts to call him on his shit.
I’m not sure why you keep saying this, because that was the entire point of the scene. You just don’t want to admit it to yourself for some strange reason.
Klingon blade? We first met Rios with a bit of shrapnel sticking out of his shoulder, not a knife. We don't know how it happened, but the ENH later met with him to discuss a problem with the ship, which was probably related. Something blew and the shrapnel caught him. I know a lot of people interpreted that first scene as Rios = Han Solo, but I've always seen that as a misreading of the character, who we have got to know better since. He badly wanted Picard to see him as someone who didn't care about anything, but Picard saw through that facade immediately, and so should we, because that's not who Rios actually is. The real Rios is the guy who talked everyone down from an armed standoff and got the team home safely in Stardust City Rag, the guy who was triggered into a PTSD episode by his first sight of Soji yet still offered her nothing but kindness, even when she tried to hijack his ship. Picard recognised him as Starfleet through and through, and he is.
Also, learning about the history of an era in the abstract is not remotely the same as experiencing it first hand.
My point was that we shouldn’t be looking too closely at the logic of a time travel story. Let it roll and hope its entertaining.
That's not what I got at all. I got that it plays with our expectations - that instead of being a defiant asshole he's meek and polite - even though in no other way he has changed.
Not progressives or progressive ideas per se but the tendency I've encountered in modern Progressives to be incapable of engaging in a discussion with people that disagree with them without devolving into disparaging them.
I know it was an Easter Egg. That’s irrelevant. The scene was there to imply that it was the same guy who now kills his music when it annoys people because he doesn’t want to get neck pinched again. The guy even grabs his neck, FFS. How could it be any more obvious what the intent was? Why else would a punk playing loud music be meek and polite?
More emotional hyperbole. You keep making up things I've never said.
In the process of progress some are going to be, a choose to be, left behind. It's not intolerance to not tolerate intolerance.
If you (general) are okay with ICE officers treating groups of people as less than human scum because they crossed an imaginary line, we've nothing to discuss. You want to be on that side of progress.
Yeah, they broke a law and that shouldn't be easily shrugged off or tolerated but the way ICE and the government treats them is despicable and shouldn't be ignored.
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I know others responded above, and I'm sure someone shared this at some point in the rapidly expanding page count of this thread, but here's what Matalas said:
Matalas: We loved the idea that maybe this guy migrated from San Francisco to Los Angeles at some point. Now technically, Star Trek IV wouldn’t have happened in this alternate timeline, but maybe SOME part of him remembers his encounter with Spock in the Prime Timeline.
And--
Matalas:"This Guinan wouldn't remember Picard because in this alternate timeline, the TNG episode "Time's Arrow" never happened. Because there was no Federation, those events did not play out the same. No previous relationship exists. However, she still was likely traveling to Earth and, as we know, she hung around a bit. So this Guinan is different. But she, of course, can sense something is off.”
I'm glad they didn't mention it. For longtime fans who know enough about past episodes to question it, there's a logical answer waiting for them with a little thought, as evidenced by people proposing it before Matalas even had a shot at explaining it. And for all the other viewers who aren't aware of the earlier stories, it's one less point of potential confusion. Making a Star Trek show that participates in the established history of the world without drowning under its density is a balancing act. I'd rather they keep it lean.
Because he's no longer a kid and now late middle aged?!?
I hold a mix of views but I'm more in the libertarian / autarchist / anarcho-capitalist end of the spectrum.
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