Spoilers ST Picard - Starships and Technology Season Two Discussion

[AaronMorse]

I’m sure that 7,000 number included shuttles and other smaller support vessels, not just starships.

Well if we count shuttles.. then we did see most of Starfleet then in the last episode of Discovery S02E14 Such Sweet Sorrow,Part 2 heeheee

But seriously look at the USS Titan NCC-2752.. USS Ptolemy NCC-3801 or NCC-4000 for a transport container, so higher NCC numbers in the 2250's is not unreasonable..

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

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[dupersuper]

- The three Evil Starfleet ships are all named after Evil Starfleet Admirals from the TNG era: Quinn, Dougherty and Leyton. I guess here they're celebrated war heroes or whatever.

Quinn wasn't evil, he was infected by bluegill parasites.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Well yes, but when transporters split Starfleet captains in twain, we still call one of them Evil Captain Kirk. At least until we put 'em back together.

Mark

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

From 4x04:

- How does La Sirena have power for a cloak but not for the heaters? Or is the lack of heat because the heating elements are literally offline somehow?

- So, does this mean that phasers have an anti-glass setting? That leaves glass to shatter and yet for no debris to be spread across the inside of the car for Raffi and Seven to get scratched on?

- Nice call stopping the car so Jurati could get an easier lock. Or be able to materialize them standing when they beamed out sitting. Or both, really!

- I think it will take a while to figure out why Guinan (actor change aside) didn't know Picard, nor why Picard himself didn't bring up her previous experience with him. In terms of causality, the simplest way I can work it out is if the events of "Time's Arrow" were somehow erased from their history. Given how wibbly-wobbly time SHOULD be after literally dozens of temporal incursions that we see in Trek along, I would not be surprised if "time travel" (tm) would explain away a LOT of the nitpicking we're so good at.

Mark

 

[fireproof78]

So, does this mean that phasers have an anti-glass setting? That leaves glass to shatter and yet for no debris to be spread across the inside of the car for Raffi and Seven to get scratched on?

Reminds me of the "glass destabalizer" mod from Deus Ex: Invisible War.

I think it will take a while to figure out why Guinan (actor change aside) didn't know Picard, nor why Picard himself didn't bring up her previous experience with him. In terms of causality, the simplest way I can work it out is if the events of "Time's Arrow" were somehow erased from their history.

I think this was mentioned in the episode review thread but I liked it so much I thought I would share my idle thoughts (not nearly so nitpicky though). Basically, in order for Time's Arrow to happen the Federation has to happen and go back in time to stop the aliens (cannot remember their name) from their plot. Maybe that still happens, but it wasn't Picard this time but some other Confed officer to deal with that alien incursion.

So, no Federation in the future, no time travel to the past.

 

[DEWLine]

@Mark_Nguyen I suspect dedicated power and control lines for cloaking device and environmental controls. The latter got messed up.

 

[Vale]

I think it will take a while to figure out why Guinan (actor change aside) didn't know Picard, nor why Picard himself didn't bring up her previous experience with him. In terms of causality, the simplest way I can work it out is if the events of "Time's Arrow" were somehow erased from their history.

Somehow I doubt General Picard of the Confederation would have concerned himself with time travelling to 19th century San Francisco.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Especially if there was no Data to go after.

It's conceivable that the 2024 we're seeing is a result of the Confed future interfering in the past prior to 2024. This would then mean that the Picard crew is aiming to interfere at a key point in time, from which a variety of changes will reverberate both backwards AND forwards in time, resulting in a restoration of the prime timeline as we know it. That is, if this is what Q's quest actually IS - he never confirmed to Picard that this is what he is meant to do, if anything at all.

I'm reminded here of Simon Pegg's explanation of why Sulu in the JJ verse was established as gay, when tons of people (including George Takei) didn't like or understand the switch from what was intended, if not directly established. Pegg posits that the divergence in the prime timeline caused by Nero's arrival in 2233 rippled along the timeline in both directions, causing changes in events in both directions. This in turn explains stuff like Sulu's changed orientation, why everyone looks different yet recognizable, etc. That could be applied to this week's episode changes as well.

Mark

 

[Vale]

The idea that time travel can change someone's sexuality is certainly... novel.

 

[David cgc]

The idea that time travel can change someone's sexuality is certainly... novel.

I still don't see why both Sulus couldn't have just been bi. We never learned anything about Demora-Prime's other parent, or even if there was one.

Evil-Picard not having done "Time's Arrow" is the official explanation for Guinan not recognizing him. That's not entirely consistent with previous instances of time travel not unhappening when the future the time traveler came from was averted, or even with Kirk Thatcher apparently remembering getting his neck wrecked, but whatever.

 

[Dukhat]

I'm reminded here of Simon Pegg's explanation of why Sulu in the JJ verse was established as gay, when tons of people (including George Takei) didn't like or understand the switch from what was intended, if not directly established. Pegg posits that the divergence in the prime timeline caused by Nero's arrival in 2233 rippled along the timeline in both directions, causing changes in events in both directions. This in turn explains stuff like Sulu's changed orientation, why everyone looks different yet recognizable, etc. That could be applied to this week's episode changes as well.

Respectfully, Simon Pegg is full of crap. Or, at the least, he's just pulling stuff out of his ass which can neither be proven or disproven, because it's all fiction. But time travel had never been portrayed that way in Star Trek before, and it's a pretty lame explanation for things like trying to rationalize Sulu's sexual preference just because some fans didn't like the portrayal in Beyond. Conversely, I also think Matalas et. al are just making the time travel rules up as they go and changing the 'somewhat' established rules to suit their own story. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that; as I said before, this is all just fiction anyway. I just find it amusing that the Punk on the Bus completely negates their backpedaling with 'Time's Arrow.'

 

[dupersuper]

Evil-Picard not having done "Time's Arrow" is the official explanation for Guinan not recognizing him. That's not entirely consistent with previous instances of time travel not unhappening when the future the time traveler came from was averted, or even with Kirk Thatcher apparently remembering getting his neck wrecked, but whatever.

Ok, nice to know it wasn't just a mistake, at least.

 

[danellis]

Evil-Picard not having done "Time's Arrow" is the official explanation for Guinan not recognizing him. That's not entirely consistent with previous instances of time travel not unhappening when the future the time traveler came from was averted, or even with Kirk Thatcher apparently remembering getting his neck wrecked, but whatever.

...I just find it amusing that the Punk on the Bus completely negates their backpedaling with 'Time's Arrow.'

Was this actually shown? You both reference it, so presumably, but I don't remember it, and honestly can't think *where* it might have been shown.

dJE

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

It's right at the beginning of the episode, with Seven and Raffi on the bus. Same actor too. Point being, I'm sure he'd have gotten clobbered by SOMEONE eventually for a being a jerk on public transportation, so visual gag aside I don't see it as a concrete evidence that he's somehow avoided the paradox.

Mark

 

[blssdwlf]

It's right at the beginning of the episode, with Seven and Raffi on the bus. Same actor too. Point being, I'm sure he'd have gotten clobbered by SOMEONE eventually for a being a jerk on public transportation, so visual gag aside I don't see it as a concrete evidence that he's somehow avoided the paradox.

Mark

In the scene he did seem to touch his neck or collar as if he had remembered the neck pinch. But yeah, it isn't concrete.

 

[danellis]

It's right at the beginning of the episode, with Seven and Raffi on the bus. Same actor too. Point being, I'm sure he'd have gotten clobbered by SOMEONE eventually for a being a jerk on public transportation, so visual gag aside I don't see it as a concrete evidence that he's somehow avoided the paradox.

Mark

aaah that explains it - I don't get to see it until tonight.

dJE

 

[Mike McDevitt]

Krash, (as Kirk Thatcher named the punk on the bus), seems to have learned a lesson about belligerence, but he may have learned it from Confederation Spock, definitely a time travelling guy with a goatee. Who went on to steal some whales but also ended up blasting the volleyball-log probe when the whales wouldn't cooperate. Maybe.

 

[Deks]

Well if we count shuttles.. then we did see most of Starfleet then in the last episode of Discovery S02E14 Such Sweet Sorrow,Part 2 heeheee

But seriously look at the USS Titan NCC-2752.. USS Ptolemy NCC-3801 or NCC-4000 for a transport container, so higher NCC numbers in the 2250's is not unreasonable..

Exactly... especially if you take into account that what we saw on-screen in terms of ships is a proverbial handful of vessels.
So, having 7000 large (aka, capital) ships in active service in the 23rd century is more than doable... and it would actually correspond better with a UFP with dozens of member planets (I mean, those ARE solar systems after with massive amount of materials and surrounding star systems that have even MORE raw materials for use).
7000 large ships (again, in the 23rd century) would be expected if we take into account the fact how large space is, and that a lot of these ships would be held inside UFP space running all kinds of errands and relief efforts, plus exploration.... and since UFP has OVER 150 member planets in the late 24th century... having over 70 000 large ships in active service is actually a bare minimum (considering the slowness of Warp drive and how large UFP space is [aka, spread over 8000 Ly's - NOT cubic Ly's).

 

[Dukhat]

Krash, (as Kirk Thatcher named the punk on the bus), seems to have learned a lesson about belligerence, but he may have learned it from Confederation Spock, definitely a time travelling guy with a goatee. Who went on to steal some whales but also ended up blasting the volleyball-log probe when the whales wouldn't cooperate. Maybe.

People keep making this comment, and I’m not sure why. There would be no reason for Confederacy Kirk and Spock to go back in time, because

1. Kirk and Spock would not even be friends, let alone shipmates, in the Confederacy timeline, and

2. The Confederacy would have just destroyed the Whale Probe. If they could destroy the Borg and enslave all other alien races, then the Probe would have been relatively nothing. And even if they failed to destroy it, there’s no way they would have gone back in time to rescue some whales. Ergo, the Earth would have been destroyed. Since that didn’t happen, it stands to reason that they defeated the Probe in the 23rd century, if the Probe even made it all the way to Earth in that timeline anyway.