Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"

[gweeps]

Pssst. Those are "lies" too. The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

So help me Q...

 

[cooleddie74]

"There is an old Vulcan proverb. Only Nixon could go to China."

 

[Nerys Myk]

Not exactly. I believe there is an overbearing quality to the modern iteration that leans toward in-your-face preaching that is in keeping with current big P 'Progressive' sensibilities.

Trust me, I've been watching since 1966. It's always been in your face and as subtle as an anvil to the head. . Being big P Progressive is in it's DNA. It's practically in the TOS pitch.

 

[Amaris]

Not exactly. I think there is an overbearing quality to the modern iteration that leans toward in-your-face preaching that is in keeping with current big P 'Progressive' sensibilities.

 

[eschaton]

Trust me, I've been watching since 1966. It's always been in your face and as subtle as an anvil to the head. . Being big P Progressive is in it's DNA. It's practically in the TOS pitch.

Enterprise excepted, which had a healthy dollop of post 9/11 "hard men making hard choices."

 

[Nerys Myk]

Literally in the face!!

 

[Trekker4747]

Not exactly. I think there is an overbearing quality to the modern iteration that leans toward in-your-face preaching that is in keeping with current big P 'Progressive' sensibilities.

And what is wrong with "progressive" why are so many bothered by such a notion? Isn't being progressive how things improve and, you know, progress? Isn't that how we get equality, improved lives and expand horizons and science?

What is wrong with PROGRESS?

 

[Tuskin38]

But... that's the point. The Confederation's past is the Federation's past up to the very moment the timeline was changed, which is happening on April 15, 2024.

Except all the time travel that happened in the original timeline after April 15th, never happened (or at least never happened them same way).

 

[Tomalak]

Not exactly. I think there is an overbearing quality to the modern iteration that leans toward in-your-face preaching that is in keeping with current big P 'Progressive' sensibilities.

Might be worth watching DS9's Past Tense or Far Beyond the Stars. Subtle they ain't.

 

[Hythlodeus]

And what is wrong with "progressive" why are so many bothered by such a notion? Isn't being progressive how things improve, you know, progress? Isn't that how we get equality. Improved lives and expand horizons and science?

What is wrong with PROGRESS?

privileged people fear change

 

[zenophite]

Trek has always done progressive socio-political commentary and it's not always been subtle with it. Maybe a bit less on the nose and obvious than we're getting here (but other than the environment classism and ICE stuff they're nit being *that* blunt about things.)

My sense is that they've had a more healthy mix in the past. Some of it was more on the nose than others, but more often than not (maybe?) it was done in a way to make the viewer think for themselves about the issue rather than being instructed on what to specifically think about the issue.

 

[captainkirk]

I find it hilarious that there's this argument about whether the changes in the timeline ripple back. I remember making the exact same argument years ago about the Kelvin timeline and people were quite confused by the idea.

Did I spot the Chronowerx tower in one establishing shot?

 

[Hythlodeus]

My sense is that they've had a more healthy mix in the past. Some of it was more on the nose than others, but more so it was done in a way to make the viewer think for themselves about the issue rather than being instructed on what to specifically think about the issue.

TOS almost always had a *this is the moral of this week's story* dialogue at the end of an episode

 

[Trekker4747]

"There is an old Vulcan proverb. Only Nixon could go to China."

You can never appreciate Nixon until you read him in the original Klingon.

(Yes, I know, not the actual quote. Making a joke on the kind of absurdness of that TUC line.)

 

[Tosk]

As mentionend upthread Space Odditiy and Ashes to Ashes, Metallica had The Unforgiven and The Unforgiven II, I Need A Girl Pt.2 by Sean Combs is surprisingly a sequel as well, and of course Another Brick in the Wall Part 2 by Pink Floyd exists.

Don't forget Let's Twist Again. One of the most blatant song sequels I can think of.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Vietnam War? There's no way we would shove the Vietnam War in the faces of 1967 television audiences!

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[eschaton]

Honestly the didactic method of storytelling being absent is one of the most notable elements of modern Trek.

It's also notable The Orville is chock full of it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

My sense is that they've had a more healthy mix in the past. Some of it was more on the nose than others, but more so it was done in a way to make the viewer think for themselves about the issue rather than being instructed on what to specifically think about the issue.

No, they came in with a point of view and supported that point of view. It was rarely here's both sides, now think about it.

 

[Tuskin38]

Did I spot the Chronowerx tower in one establishing shot?

The Chronowerx tower is a real building in LA, with the name added in post-production. So you probably saw the original building it was based on.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/MTA_Building

 

[Tomalak]

I find it hilarious that there's this argument about whether the changes in the timeline ripple back. I remember making the exact same argument years ago about the Kelvin timeline and people were quite confused by the idea.

Did I spot the Chronowerx tower in one establishing shot?

The MTA Building, but it's not occupied by Chronowerx in the timeline because hippy Henry Starling never found a crashed Federation timeship.