Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x02 - "Penance"

[Turtletrekker]

I still haven't heard a reasonable explanation as to why the Queen was only stunning the Stargazer's officers. I am convinced it will be significant. While I agree it would be a mistake to blindly trust the Queen and her motivations, I also don't want to fall into the same moral trap that Picard, Guinan and the rest of us (except Geordi and Beverly) fell into in "I, Borg". Necheyev be damned, Picard made the right decision there.

Picard was also given new insight on the Borg last season when he realized that they were all victims. It would rub against the grain if this arc ended without Picard addressing that in some manner.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Actually it was the Borg who broke the agreement, when Seven tried to assimilate Voyager.

The Borg lost their Cube.

Seven says she wants a lift, 5 days in the wrong direction.

Acting Captain Chakotay decides to dump the Borg on a planet, ending the alliance, and make a break for the other side of Borg space.

Annika complies.

4 million drones are killed by 8472.

Chakotay is trying to beam the Borg into exile on unknown planet.

Seven opens an anomaly to fluidic space.

Chakotay spaces 40 drones who are not sexy.

Voyager crosses an inter dimensional rift into fluidic space.

Seven gives a briefing on the new reality of their alliance, she wants to build warheads, but Chakotay figures out that the Borg started the War.

Seven wants to fight 8472.

Chakotay wants to run.

Janeway wakes up from her coma.

CHAKOTAY explains that he dumped the Borg because "In my mind the alliance was already over."

Janeway wants to ally with the Borg again, and Chakotay wants to run home. CHAKOTAY IS Sent to the Brig. Not really, but that's just what Kathryn told Seven.

They kill some 8472 and go home.

Kill some more 8472, and 8472 go home.

Seven decides to assimilate the ship and crew.

Chakotay links with Seven and appeals to humanity, until B'Elanna zaps her.

End.

....

Chakotay broke the alliance and killed 40 Borg, which put delays on the Borg counter offensive that could have accounted to the total defeat of every species in the universe.

Yeah.

Hours after that, Seven is told by the collective to assimilate Voyager.

 

[Uhura's Song]

I still haven't heard a reasonable explanation why the Queen was only stunning the Stargazer's officers. I am convinced it will be significant. While I agree it would be a mistake to blindly trust the Queen and her motivations, I also don't want to fall into the same moral trap that Picard, Guinan and the rest of us (except Geordi and Beverly) fell into in "I, Borg". Necheyev be damned, Picard made the right decision there.

Picard was also given new insight on the Borg last season when he realized that they were all victims. It would rub against the grain if this arc ended without Picard addressing that in some manner.

Good post.

I cannot figure why the Borg tried to take over Stargazer instead of announcing their intentions. Maybe there was a time issue, or they thought they would not be believed. Regardless, the Queen stunning folk instead of killing and being masked are most certainly significant.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Seven is told by the collective to assimilate Voyager.

Seven still WAS the collective at that point.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Seven still WAS the collective at that point.

True, after she'd just spent hours as an individual in Fluidic space.

If the Borg had killed 40 crewmen from Voyager, and then returned to the negotiating table without expecting bile and animosity, they'd be first class imbeciles.

Chakotay broke the alliance, and then Janeway made unenforceable deals with a severed drone. Did Janeway make a new deal? I doubt it. The old deal was dunzo and there was no new deal.

 

[Gov Kodos]

I still haven't heard a reasonable explanation why the Queen was only stunning the Stargazer's officers. I am convinced it will be significant. While I agree it would be a mistake to blindly trust the Queen and her motivations, I also don't want to fall into the same moral trap that Picard, Guinan and the rest of us (except Geordi and Beverly) fell into in "I, Borg". Necheyev be damned, Picard made the right decision there.

Picard was also given new insight on the Borg last season when he realized that they were all victims. It would rub against the grain if this arc ended without Picard addressing that in some manner.

Wouldn't shock me the Borg Queen turned out to be Annika/Seven after all this. It would call back to Seven's brief mini Queen stint about Annika still having work to do and even tie into the Borg Queen having a form of temporal awareness.

I could see the Borg figuring out their assimilate their way to perfection is actually reductionist and unlikely to achieve the end goal and need the comprehension of individuality Seven has gained to undo what they've done to themselves.

Not likely to happen but one can imagine.

 

[Tuskin38]

CSS La Sirena

https://twitter.com/daveblass/status/1503258842334826496?s=21

 

[Nerys Myk]

CSS La Sirena

https://twitter.com/daveblass/status/1503258842334826496?s=21

The other ships are named for mythical sea creatures, as well.

 

[Tuskin38]

I wonder if the Confederate troops are genetically engineered in some way. The name tags on their combat outfits did include a DNA sequence. Though it was also next to their blood type, it could just be for advanced medical treatment

 

[Guy Gardener]

I wonder if the Confederate troops are genetically engineered in some way. The name tags on their combat outfits did include a DNA sequence. Though it was also next to their blood type, it could just be for advanced medical treatment

The Supermen were in factions.

Just because Khan fled Earth, there were probably a shit ton of Supermen on Earth at the point of divergence in 2024 who might have lead a Coup against the human world and started the confederation.

Did we see any bl... Raffi.

Just wondering if the South raised again?

 

[Gov Kodos]

Just wondering if the South raised again?

Biscuits, bread? They do like a good fried dough, anyway.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Is it a Borg under that Borg Queen costume? Could it be Q?

 

[jackoverfull]

But she needs the timeline to be reset too. She'll help them and be truthful up until their goals diverge. We (and I suspect the crew) know she'll betray them once the timeline is repaired.

yes, if the timeline is restored she gains for it, but only up to a point: as per the first episode, the borg have been decimated in the prime timeline. If she were for example to contact the borg in the 21st century and have earth assimilated she would avoid the decimation of the borg in the first place, gaining much more.

Moreover, the borg queen herself might not know everything, operating only on the data she has.

I wonder how much convincing it took to get Spiner to play an evil Soong this time.

probably not much!

 

[Tosk]

I wonder if the Confederate troops are genetically engineered in some way. The name tags on their combat outfits did include a DNA sequence.

Or maybe it's a "Look here, I'm definitely from Earth. A superior species, check out my DNA profile!" thing.

 

[hxclespaulplayer]

I wonder how much convincing it took to get Spiner to play an evil Soong this time.

Well he loved playing an evil Brent Spiner on the big bang theory (Ripping Sheldons' signed Mr Data figure out of the packet)...

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The Borg lost their Cube.

Seven says she wants a lift, 5 days in the wrong direction.

Acting Captain Chakotay decides to dump the Borg on a planet, ending the alliance, and make a break for the other side of Borg space.

Annika complies.

4 million drones are killed by 8472.

Chkotay is trying to beam the Borg into exile on unknown planet.

Seven opens an anomaly to fluidic space.

Chakotay spaces 40 drones who are not sexy.

Voyager crosses an inter dimensional rift into fluidic space.

Seven gives a briefing on the new reality of their alliance, she wants to build warheads, but Chakotay figures out that the Borg started the War.

Seven wants to fight 8472.

Chakotay wants to run.

Janeway wakes up from her coma.

CHAKOTAY explains that he dumped the Borg because "In my mind the alliance was already over."

Janeway wants to ally with the Borg again, and Chakotay wants to run home. CHAKOTAY IS Sent to the Brig. Not really, but that's just what Kathryn told Seven.

They kill some 8472 and go home.

Kill some more 8472, and 8472 go home.

Seven decides to assimilate the ship and crew.

Chakotay links with Seven and appeals to humanity, until B'Elanna zaps her.

End.

....

Chakotay broke the alliance and killed 40 Borg, which put delays on the Borg counter offensive that could have accounted to the total defeat of every species in the universe.

Yeah.

Hours after that, Seven is told by the collective to assimilate Voyager.

Somehow you missed the point that Seven insisted on unilaterally changing the agreement with threats to the lives of the crew. How did that happen?

 

[Guy Gardener]

So Capain Chakotay is a nicer bloke because he didn't remind the Borg that he put them in a large room with massive doors that open into space?

Seven didn't unilaterally change the deal in the third act.

The deal was to work together, Cube and Star Ship together. The Borg Cube, and the 20 thousand drones on that Cube rammed a bio ship that was threatening Voyager, to death.

8472 changed the deal, by allowing 20 thousand drones to commit suicide to save Voyager and her crew from certain death.

The Borg needed a replacement cube for its science resources, to live up to its obligations to protect Voyager, and build the new weapon, which was only 5 days away.

By 7s unspoken estimates, it seemed like the Borg would be defeated in 7 days.

This is when Chakotay punked out of the alliance. He wanted to maroon his Borg, withe half a secret weapon, 9 days travel from the nearest cube if the planet they're standing on isn't going to meet the Cube half way.

This is all bullshit by the way.

It should take years to cross all of Borg space at Warp speed and minutes to cross all of borg space at Transwarp speed, but the people writing this show were not paying attention to the new accumulated lore since TNG well.

 

[F. King Daniel]

You know, Q made it REAL easy for our heroes. One is the head of the military, one is a friggin' President, one is a police chief, and another a scientist tasked with the key to their salvation. They started with everything they needed.

Like how could they lose?

 

[Guy Gardener]

You know, Q made it REAL easy for our heroes. One is the head of the military, one is a friggin' President, one is a police chief, and another a scientist tasked with the key to their salvation. They started with everything they needed.

Like how could they lose?

They lose all of that advantage, the moment they go back to 2024...

You'd think that if the Confederation is Super happy about their time line, that they'd send a strike force back to 2024 to kill Picard before he derails time.

And maybe the first magistrate wants his wife back?

 

[Llywela]

They already lost all that advantage, the moment they rescued the Borg Queen in front of a packed crowd baying for her blood.