Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x02 - "Penance"

[Tuskin38]

Lol I'm betting Mirror Universe of this Prime Universe was a Terran Empire that suddenly had a huge change of heart and decided to become a force for good and somehow became the Federation. Probably after the Terran Empire was overthrown around DS9's time.

So the novel'verse Mirror Universe?

Unless that's the reference you're making.

 

[The Rock]

So the novel'verse Mirror Universe?

Unless that's the reference you're making.

Oh is that what happened in the novels? I've never read them. But now I want to!

 

[BK613]

Lol I'm betting Mirror Universe of this Prime Universe was a Terran Empire that suddenly had a huge change of heart and decided to become a force for good and somehow became the Federation. Probably after the Terran Empire was overthrown around DS9's time.

Psh...probably looks like The Orville.

 

[DaveyNY]

What if the vial that Q gives to Adam Soong is the Augment Virus, but instead of effecting Klingons, this time it only changes Humans?

Could be that is what turns the entire earth into a extreme alien-phobe.

Or perhaps it's the cure for the Super Humans from Kahn's group?

 

[Tuskin38]

Oh is that what happened in the novels? I've never read them. But now I want to!

'Mirror Universe: The Sorrows of Empire' covers the Rise of Emperor Spock and the fall of the empire.

Various post-TOS short stories in the Mirror Universe Anthology books cover other parts of the rebellion and reformation,

And 'Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions' has the formation of a Federation like entity.

 

[The Rock]

'The Sorrows of Empire' covers the Rise of Emperor Spock and the fall of the empire.
various post-TOS short stories in the Mirror Universe Anthology books cover other part of the rebellion and reformation, and the 'Rise Like Lions' has the formation of the Federation like entiry.

Thx for the heads up. I'm definitely gonna borrow it from the library!

 

[Sakonna]

I kinda think based on what we learned in Discovery is that the Mirror Universe wasn't a real alternate universe/timeline like we've seen elsewhere but some kind of dark reflection of the Prime Universe that constantly was shifting and changing to mirror the Prime Universe in the general existence of people, places, and ships and thus wasn't bound to linearity. It would literally retcon itself until something happened that caused it to break free of the Prime Universe and become a real reality.

Huh, that's interesting. I was always seeing the MU in the context of the infinite multiverses in "Parallels" -- like, whenever the complaint was made that it wasn't plausible that all the same people were always together, I would say, yeah, those more plausible outcomes are also happening in other universes. But the MU is the MU specifically because it is the most inverse version of the Prime timeline -- it's the timeline with the greatest number of the same things/people in the same places, but in the most changed circumstances.

Disco season 3 kind of threw a wrench in that, with the revelation that the universes can drift apart.

Other than kind of wishing that it was K'Mpec instead of Martok, a really good episode. Really liking this season so far.

Or Duras. Something to joke about with Worf later.

 

[Tuskin38]

Well in 'Mirror, Mirror', the Halkans were were pacifists in both universes.

I don't think the original intention was everyone was a mirror, just the Federation.

 

[The Rock]

Well in 'Mirror, Mirror', the Halkans were were pacifists in both universes.

I don't think the original intention was everyone was a mirror, just the Federation.

According to the novels weren't the MU Borg just as evil and ruthless as the PU Borg (but yet even more powerful)?

 

[Sakonna]

True, but I was reaching for workarounds as the spin-offs wore on and we then kept having the same people in the same places over many centuries of drastically changed galactic events.

 

[Kevman7987]

I noticed something, the 3D renders of the Borg Queen on the computer display next to the cryo chamber, she her torso is naked, with her arms up covering her breasts.

I noticed that too and it bothered me. (At least in the prime timeline) The queen's organic components don't extend that far down her torso. She's just head and shoulders with her robo-spine poking out the bottom.
CANON VIOLATION alarms are going off.

 

[cooleddie74]

And Miles O'Brien was basically a good human being in both universes.

 

[Tuskin38]

According to the novels weren't the MU Borg just as evil and ruthless as the PU Borg (but yet even more powerful)?

They had bigger ships, and didn't allow people to just wonder around their ships.

The Mirror Dominion

Spoiler

Was still an authoritarian system with the founders at the top and still had Vorta and Jem'hadar, but they believed that no one was above the law, even other founders.

Basically imagine if Prime Odo ran the Dominion. They didn't found the Dominion out of the fear of solids like the Prime Dominion, but out of the need for justice and law. Order from chaos

 

[tomalak301]

While I think last week was better, I still enjoyed this episode quite a lot. It just felt like pieces on a board being moved into position, and seeing that Totalitarian Hellhole reminded me a little of what a Mirror Universe Picard would have been like since TNG didn't go into the Mirror Universe. That conversation between Q and Picard was what I was looking forward to and it did not disappoint. In fact, I think it exceeded my expectations.

This one gets an 8 from me and I'm excited about where we go from here. I also loved the DS9 references of Martok, Gul Dukat, and Commander Sisko.

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

Well, that was very entertaining (also, funny) in a very... pulp fiction way.

I liked the Q/ Picard scenes best. Hmmm, so Q is not well. Maybe he just needs to play with the love of his life when his end is near?

A bit too many oh-so-quippy one-liners for my taste. And oh boy, Trek never does subtle when portraying a more sinister universe/ timeline/ reality!

The group scenes (lab etc) looked very unnatural to me, with most of our heroes standing around stiffly. I'm guessing they were filmed separately for each actor or pairs of actors.

More thoughts tomorrow.

A benefit-of-the-doubt 8 for me.

 

[CorporalClegg]

He and Jake reenact famous UFC bouts on the holodeck.

 

[JLBTucker]

Another great episode!

The whole intro with Q was absolutely fantastic. De Lancie nailed it. I got to say that Q did seem angrier than usual. And Picard mentions that Q does not look well. I wonder if the time change affected Q somehow. Or maybe Q is angry that Picard has not learned his lesson.

I am sure the "haters" will complain about Q hitting Picard, not just because Q never got physical with Picard like that in TNG but also because Picard looks like a frail, old man now. But I think it makes sense. As Q says, he is tired of Picard's small mindness and stubbornness. But part of me wonders if maybe Picard was acting out of character in this episode. He was acting towards Q the way he did in early TNG but surely after All Good Things, he should at least try to be more open minded about the bigger picture. So yeah, I get Q's frustration with Picard.

Also, when Q says "you change in every way except where it matters most" and then "this is not a test, this is penance", I get the implication that the trial in TNG is over and Q is basically saying "you failed to learn the lesson you were supposed to learn after All Good Things so this is not another test, now you are being punished"

But what exactly did Picard do that is so terrible that it deserves penance and forgiveness? I guess we will find out. It seems extreme to put Picard in an alternate timeline where he is a genocidal conqueror just because Picard had a troubled childhood as implied in episode 1?

The rest of the episode was great too. We got good world building of this totalitarian Earth. We some nice action scenes. We also got some answers.

There was some nice themes too with having Seven and Picard, who were both assimilated by the Borg, presiding over the execution of the Borg queen and having to rescue her. .

I appreciate that the show is not dragging on the mystery. Our main characters figure out what is going on. And the episode also moves the plot along quickly with our characters almost escaping.

I continue to really look forward to where the season is going. It has got me hooked.

Or Q tried punching for himself after getting owned by Sisko and wanted to see if it worked as well

 

[Tuskin38]

The Ready Room has a segment on the Confederation props.
originally they were going to have suits of armour instead of the skulls
Dave Blass suggested going for skulls instead

UCPSC. SC probably stands for Star Corps. UCP might be United Confederation of Planets. Though in the episode they call it the Confederation of Earth. Maybe the name changed between the time the costumes were made and the episode was filmed.
A+ would be blood type, and the letters on the right is human genome DNA stuff

Reman Disruptor from Nemesis

 

[Aragorn]

I liked the Q/ Picard scenes best. Hmmm, so Q is not well. Maybe he just needs to play with the love of his life when his end is near?

Season 1, Picard kills Data. Season 2, Picard kills Q. Season 3, Picard kills Wesley.

 

[OCD Geek]

I know it's early yet (We're only two episodes into Season 2.), but add Terry Matalas to the hallowed halls of replacement Trek showrunners that took an okay Star Trek series and made it great. Holy shit, y'all. This fucking franchise and that weirdass accidental tradition.