Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x02 - "Penance"

[Anduinel]

This season is very interesting. Martok, Dukat, Sisko refs for the win! Honesty not thrilled with the concept of a Soong seemingly being the lynchpin of all of this dystopia. I’m getting a little tired of the Soongs. Still, love what they’re doing with Q, Seven and Jurati. And yeah, pretty sure Agnes is the Borg Queen with the mask on the Stargazer. The mask is definitely suggesting it’s someone we know and with her setup this season, it makes a ton of sense.

9/10.

Yeah. I confess, I was tickled by Spiner showing up out of make-up last season. It was a "Another fucking Soong!" while cackling and throwing popcorn at the screen moment. But putting yet another Soong at the center of this storm is wearing the joke a bit threadbare for my taste. But at least it's probably the last time.

 

[Tuskin38]

World Razer rhymes with Stargazer, that had to be on purpose.

 

[cooleddie74]

The 21st century Soong is likely the one who starts it all so by tampering with the history of the man whose progeny led to the resurrection of the Augments from the Eugenics Wars and the creation of positronic life forms then that might be enough to fuck up the next 400 years of both Earth and interstellar history.

 

[Sakonna]

I was tickled by Spiner showing up out of make-up last season. It was a "Another fucking Soong!" while cackling and throwing popcorn at the screen moment. But putting yet another Soong at the center of this storm is wearing the joke a bit threadbare for my taste. But at least it's probably the last time.

Probably the last time? You heard it here first -- next season Brent Spiner will be donning Mrs-Doubtfire-style drag to portray Estelle Mavis Soong.

What exactly determines who maintains their memory of the Prime universe? The bridge of the Stargazer? Elnor and Raffi weren't there. The entire Starfleet squadron last episode? In that case, we'd have a whole army recalling the prime timeline, not just the Picard regular characters.

Things like this are why I'm finding it hard to judge this episode. For this story to work, they need a good answer for these questions -- it can't just be that you kept your knowledge of the alternate timeline if you're a series regular on "Star Trek: Picard."

Hopefully there is a good answer, though! I'm going to keep myself cautiously optimistic.

 

[El Maestro]

How could you possibly know that considering we haven't even seen the "real" President Hansen yet?

What exactly determines who maintains their memory of the Prime universe? The bridge of the Stargazer? Elnor and Raffi weren't there. The entire Starfleet squadron last episode? In that case, we'd have a whole army recalling the prime timeline, not just the Picard regular characters.

You can handwave and say "Q did it."

 

[Tuskin38]

I think Q's test has to do with them not trusting the Borg in Episode 1. He keeps mentioning fear and it was fear that prevented them from trusting the Borg in Episode 1

So he changed the timeline to where Fear is all humanity knows

 

[Reanok]

Great continuation with Q and Picard their scenes were well acted. It was intense and this alternate timeline was really dark and dangerous. The stuff with the borg queen was intriguing .Annie Wersching did a good job as the Queen and her interaction with Picard calling him Locutus was chilling. A crazy Borg queen to use for time travel will be really different story telling for this season.

 

[El Maestro]

This season is very interesting. Martok, Dukat, Sisko refs for the win! Honesty not thrilled with the concept of a Soong seemingly being the lynchpin of all of this dystopia. I’m getting a little tired of the Soongs. Still, love what they’re doing with Q, Seven and Jurati. And yeah, pretty sure Agnes is the Borg Queen with the mask on the Stargazer. The mask is definitely suggesting it’s someone we know and with her setup this season, it makes a ton of sense.

9/10.

That's a good point...while Data and the Soong stuff was one of a few through lines on TNG it wasn't like this big huge dominant thing. Then in the TNG movies and in PIC the Data/Soong stuff looms very, very large. It's an odd choice.

 

[eschaton]

I have to admit, I'm having a hard time aligning the fact that the change which supposedly created this timeline was in 2024, and that Q infers it was the result of Picard's actions in the first episode.

The only way to square the circle is to presume that someone from even further in the future than Picard goes back in time after his death and mucks up the timeline.

Maybe this is what the "watchers" are? Maybe something goes really, really wrong due to this new conflict with the Borg, and individuals (including Laris) go back in time and try to "fix" things?

 

[Seven of Five]

I mean the Mirror Universe was dark, but something here gave it more edge. The idea of Craaaaaaaaazy Omnipotent Q going back into the past changing things on a whim is evil-icous.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Another great episode!

The whole intro with Q was absolutely fantastic. De Lancie nailed it. I got to say that Q did seem angrier than usual. And Picard mentions that Q does not look well. I wonder if the time change affected Q somehow. Or maybe Q is angry that Picard has not learned his lesson.

I am sure the "haters" will complain about Q hitting Picard, not just because Q never got physical with Picard like that in TNG but also because Picard looks like a frail, old man now. But I think it makes sense. As Q says, he is tired of Picard's small mindness and stubbornness. But part of me wonders if maybe Picard was acting out of character in this episode. He was acting towards Q the way he did in early TNG but surely after All Good Things, he should at least try to be more open minded about the bigger picture. So yeah, I get Q's frustration with Picard.

Also, when Q says "you change in every way except where it matters most" and then "this is not a test, this is penance", I get the implication that the trial in TNG is over and Q is basically saying "you failed to learn the lesson you were supposed to learn after All Good Things so this is not another test, now you are being punished"

But what exactly did Picard do that is so terrible that it deserves penance and forgiveness? I guess we will find out. It seems extreme to put Picard in an alternate timeline where he is a genocidal conqueror just because Picard had a troubled childhood as implied in episode 1?

The rest of the episode was great too. We got good world building of this totalitarian Earth. We some nice action scenes. We also got some answers.

There was some nice themes too with having Seven and Picard, who were both assimilated by the Borg, presiding over the execution of the Borg queen and having to rescue her. .

I appreciate that the show is not dragging on the mystery. Our main characters figure out what is going on. And the episode also moves the plot along quickly with our characters almost escaping.

I continue to really look forward to where the season is going. It has got me hooked.

 

[Tuskin38]

Q infers it was the result of Picard's actions in the first episode.

Picard is saying Q changed the timeline, which I think is true based on the trailers.

I think Q meant he himself changed the timeline as a result of Picard, and the Stargazer's actions actions in Episode 1, showing fear, attacking the Borg when they asked for peace. I don't think he's saying Picard changed the timeline.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Picard is saying Q changed the timeline, which I think is true based on the trailers.

I think Q meant he himself changed the timeline as a result of Picard, and the Stargazer's actions actions in Episode 1, showing fear, attacking the Borg when they asked for peace. I don't think he's saying Picard changed the timeline.

To be precise, it is the Borg Queen who says the time-line changed, and she might not be entirely trustworthy. Perhaps we'll find out that the changes are more complex.

 

[Tuskin38]

To be precise, it is the Borg Queen who says the time-line changed, and she might not be entirely trustworthy. Perhaps we'll find out that the changes are more complex.

Right true, at first he thinks Q just moved them to an alternate universe. But he still thinsk later that Q changed the timeline after learning Time is broken.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I think Q meant he himself changed the timeline as a result of Picard, and the Stargazer's actions actions in Episode 1, showing fear, attacking the Borg when they asked for peace. I don't think he's saying Picard changed the timeline.

What if Picard showing fear and attacking the Borg when they wanted peace, is what Q is referring to when he says Picard needs to make penance? That makes sense as a "test" that Picard failed by not being open minded to the possibility of these Borg being different. And that would have a thematic connection to totalitarian timeline where "evil" Picard kills the Borg Queen. Picard still viewed the Borg as monsters, so Q puts him in a timeline where he is the monster killing the Borg queen. Very Q-like irony.

 

[StewMc]

I don’t see why Q would need to go back and time to change anything, he could literally do it with the snap of his fingers.

Talking of which, I wasn’t sure how they would handle the Q “flash” since it wouldn’t really fit in with the style of the show. I think what they’ve done works though.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Of course, let's not bring in General Sisko, who'd smack Q around and set things straight.

 

[CorporalClegg]

So I wonder if the linchpin here is the Bell riots. When the trailer first broke, my assumption was just that they'd ignore the whole thing and that the 2024 was just a matter of taking this year and adding two. But with all the DS9 eggs in this episode, that would seem kind of odd. And it's not as if the sanctuaries wouldn't be hugely apropos given what's currently going on in California.

 

[Romulan_spy]

So I wonder if the linchpin here is the Bell riots. When the trailer first broke, my assumption was just that they'd ignore the whole thing and that the 2024 was just a matter of taking this year and adding two. But with all the DS9 eggs in this episode, that would seem kind of odd. And it's not as if the sanctuaries wouldn't be hugely apropos given what's currently going on in California.

If I am remembering correctly, in the original timeline, Bell was able to bring attention to the sanctuaries in a peaceful way. It was the first step towards solving homelessness in a more civilized way which eventually led to the peaceful Earth of the Federation. What if the change is that the the Bell riots were squashed with force which led to the rise of this authoritarian Earth?

 

[Gepard]

I think Q's test has to do with them not trusting the Borg in Episode 1. He keeps mentioning fear and it was fear that prevented them from trusting the Borg in Episode 1

So he changed the timeline to where Fear is all humanity knows

It also mirrors Picard's personal fear of intimacy. This, I think, is the way that Picard refuses to change that Q alluded to: he won't stop being afraid of other people. His internal reality is, in essence, fascist. I think this is the penance Picard must do: face down how his tight militant internal control affects the people around him. (See: Laris.)

The only wrinkle with my interpretation is Q calling the Confederation timeline the "road not taken;" if it's meant to be a lesson for Picard's personal life it's really more like "the road you're already on to the Nth degree."

But I'm overall really pleased with how coherent the themes are shaping up to be; the writers have put all the right pieces in place to make an actual point instead of constantly undercutting themselves like last season.