the idea that the mobile emitter somehow enhanced the doctor and allowed him to become sentient.
When did the Janeway hatred truly start to coalesce?
- Thread starter Ragitsu
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In Futures End the Doctor said that he had a catastrophic data failure recently, and that he had been rebuilding his data base since then. He's referring to Swarm when he ate a diagnostic hologram to survive.
It's the unexpected fail, and the custom rebuild I blame the sentience on, if I believed he was sentient, which I don't.
It's the unexpected fail, and the custom rebuild I blame the sentience on, if I believed he was sentient, which I don't.
I know it didn't. But I used it as a way that they could have explained why the Doc was a sentient but other holograms on Voyager weren't.
Sentient holograms open up a can of worms because their consciousness, assuming they have one, rests in a computer, and if the computer can create sentience, it can also become sentient (which makes Data a lot easier to replicate). Also, if you destroy that computer, or wipe its memory, does that make you a murderer? When Janeway deleted Frannie Sullivan, was that Tuvix 2.0? Could Riker have recreated Minuet by saying "computer, create a holographic woman capable of getting my engines hot"?
Not saying the Doc cannot or shouldn't be new life. Just that it probably shouldn't apply to every kung fu opponent or lusty prom queen the holodeck spits out.
No, but an individual cell is a subsection of the sentient whole. With a holodeck character vs. the computer housing them, that is reversed: the hologram exists within a part of the computer's memory. If sentience can exist in one part of it, can it exist in another part?
Could the ship's computer develop a personality? Could it have feelings? Would it have the right to refuse a refit that would erase aspects of its personality? Might it gain enough self preservation instinct to tell the captain "unable to comply" (which is computerese for "go @$*#! yourself") when he tried to set the autodestruct?
Like I said... a can of worms.
The Doctor's mobile emitter was not directly responsible in giving him sentience... although it was probably a CONTRIBUTING factor (because it freed him up from his sickbay limitation - but the crew already provided the means for the doctor to go to the holodeck very early on, etc.).
So the Doctor's evolution was already ongoing... but new sensory input from a broader range of movement outside the ship also changed his perspective. He was already on his way towards this, but its possible getting the mobile emitter provided experiences which somewhat accelerated this process.
One of the main reasons the Doc probably became sentient was because of his adaptive programming which were integrated by Lewis Zimmerman - a direct byproduct of what lead to sentient holograms the Hirogen were trying to hunt.
Most holograms don't have this ability unless they are given some command by the crew to incorporate this as part of the program... and even then, its a relatively controlled environment (unless something goes wrong).
At any rate, Janeway deleting Frannie Sullivan was not Tuvix 2.0. Frannie was never sentient. None of the Fair Haven holograms were. When that Neutronic storm hit the ship hard at the end of the episode, some of holodeck systems were damaged and Paris had to rebuild the program. Its possible the perceptual filters for that specific program were affected in an unpredictable capacity when the storm hit, and coupled with Tom Paris alterations, it gave rise to the Fair Haven holos to become more 'aware' of their environment.
It was said that all 24th century ships have the potential for developing sentience actually... this became clear in early TNG when Geordi created Moriarty... and that computer capabilities were seldom (or almost never) never used to their fullest (oh the things one could do with such a powerful system that Trek writers never really delved properly into).
A 'potential' for making sentient life forms does not equate sentience in itself though... so, destroying a computer capable of producing sentient holograms in itself would not constitute murder if that computer did not achieve sentience in itself.
We've seen that when the organic crews noticed synthetics DID in fact have sentience, they quickly changed their stance - but I guess its a line that has to exist, otherwise, you'd have to give up most technology simply because it has potential to become sentient (and that's not an option - plus, the sentient machines are perfectly comfortable using 'dumber machines' in turn to further their own agenda... the Federation does draw a line at sentience though - so I guess that's as good of a threshold as any I suppose given how this subject was not adequately explored or fleshed out it seems - plus, SF and UFP were more than willing to accept Data [a sentient android] into Starfleet... so that hearing about Data's rights in the first place never should have occurred - it felt out of place if anything else).
But this is also a bit of a slippery slope.
If all 24th century FED ships have the ability to become sentient (ala Zora - not Control or heck, maybe even Control), then how does it reflect on the original builders of those ships (United Federation of Planets and other species) if they have algorithms and subroutines in place to PREVENT rise of such intelligence?
It would be sort of equivalent to intentionally keeping a species dumb (in this case, computers which can become sentient) just so you can continue using their capabilities.
So, it seems 'sentience' is a threshold. If a computer shows no sign of intelligence, then there are no issues... if there are signs of intelligence, then it needs to be investigated, confirmed and dealt with (aka, cease working on it and using it as you did before until it can decide what it wants to do and provide it with a range of options - or at least that what a supposedly openminded collaboration of species such as UFP would effectively do).
Really, it started as soon as the show was announced. Even though Trek is supposed to be "Progressive" and "Enlightened", the sad fact is that plenty just weren't happy over a woman Captain in the 90s.
Of course, somehow things have become even more misogynistic NOW as we see in Discovery. But that's how the cookie crumbles.
It's the same issue the Star Wars Sequels had. The "Fans" had no interest in new characters, let alone ones that weren't white men.
Of course, somehow things have become even more misogynistic NOW as we see in Discovery. But that's how the cookie crumbles.
It's the same issue the Star Wars Sequels had. The "Fans" had no interest in new characters, let alone ones that weren't white men.
Starting with the Paramount brass. Kate Mulgrew said that for the first few months, they were at the shooting site glaring at her.
Yes...I've discovered that quite a few Trekkies are in it for the whiz-bang escapades and for Kirk shagging a colorful assemblage of lifeforms.
In TOS, Kirk kissed 19 women, and slept with 3 women.
https://www.quora.com/Was-Captain-K...t-he-was-later-portrayed-through-satire-to-be
Of course what people believe happened is of greater importance than what happened, because it's unlikely that all the people with the wrong idea, are going to sit down and watch 79 episodes of TOS before Christmas.
https://www.quora.com/Was-Captain-K...t-he-was-later-portrayed-through-satire-to-be
Of course what people believe happened is of greater importance than what happened, because it's unlikely that all the people with the wrong idea, are going to sit down and watch 79 episodes of TOS before Christmas.
That may explain the navy spheres...or are they emerald?
Wait, people hate Janeway? I think it's a bit hyperbolic. I like her and I think Mulgrew did a great job playing her. The problem with her character was at fault of the showrunners. One week she's paranoid and wants to torture a Starfleet officer and on the other she acts cuddly and motherly with her crew. Very contrasting traits, even more noticeable when watching several episodes in a row. Not to mention her double standards when enforcing Starfleet policies on the ship. It happens just because the plot wants. Then next week everything resets.
When ignoring these flaws, I think she's fine. The missed opportunities for her character is countless, which is even more unfortunate considering she's the first female captain. After all, you can say this about VOY as a whole when talking about missed opportunities.
When ignoring these flaws, I think she's fine. The missed opportunities for her character is countless, which is even more unfortunate considering she's the first female captain. After all, you can say this about VOY as a whole when talking about missed opportunities.
Did GOAT Janeway need any improvements; she seemed pretty polished from the start and had zero weaknesses?
A female Commanding Officer was the next logical choice for ST following 3 male commanding officer, sure some people likely didn't like but TV's come with an off switch if you don't like it don't watch it.
But what might annotysome people is if they try and force "how great" this often but not always female character is. Most people will accept strong female leads such as Ripley from Alien, because it doesn't feel forced
The 1990s were a different...earlier...time; bluntness was more accepted (even needed) back then.
If Ripley came out today, we'd be hearing about how "forced" she is as a character
