Whaaat? Odd that the first 5 episodes are still on? Glad I was buying it episode by episode, some people bought the season!
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x06 - "Stormy Weather"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Whaaat? Odd that the first 5 episodes are still on? Glad I was buying it episode by episode, some people bought the season!
Oh sorry, I misunderstood
They had to pause every two minutes for some ex-con to give his long boring-ass life story.
I guess i know where the Adira/Grey arc is heading
I'm convinced Zora either has already fallen in love with Grey during this episode or eventually will.
If she gets a synth body, it could mean trouble for Adira and Grey's relationship...
I didn't get that vibe.
I don't think Zora is in love with Grey, just thinks of him as a friend.
I’m with you, I didn’t get any sort of feeling there was anything going on there beyond the characters bonding and trying to relate to and help one another.
I would recommend staying away from this thread.
I appreciate the elaboration of your argument. It does give me more to chew on. It doesn't erase my desire to see more development of the DISCO bridge crew, who we've seen for four years now but still barely know, and that desire is more amplified due to them volunteering to go into the future. It creates even more curiosity about them. Why did they elect to leave everything behind to stay on the ship? What are they to each other, and to Burnham? How are they affected by the choice they made? I look at it from the (fan fiction) writer perspective, to some extent, and see a waste of a lot of seemingly good actors, potentially good characters, and potentially good storylines.
When it comes to creative obligation the writers are seemingly largely free to do whatever they want in that regard, and we have seen them-perhaps in response to some fan outcry-start to develop the bridge crew. I enjoyed the crew dinner scene last season and I'm enjoying the bits we get sprinkled here and there, even if they sometimes are awkward. I think DISCO has done a wonderful job in making a show based on Burnham (I haven't liked all of the creative decisions made, but I think Sonequa Martin-Green has been good throughout and with just about everything they've put Burnham through), but it would be great to see them keep building up the bridge crew. It adds to what I assume to be the creatives' desire to create a more inclusive palette for Trek.
Of course, it's possible that it's just friendship. But he was the first one who really established a connection with her and they are both outsiders on the ship. And it's possible that Zora, being inexperienced with emotions, interprets what she feels regarding Grey as love.
And we don't know how Grey really feels and thinks about her.
Can't wait till someone dies in an accident because the ships computer is distracted due to the ships crush is literally doing it with his partner inside her
There are advantages to having an AI having a vested interest in not only its own well being but those it is with.
I was rewatching some of the later season 2 episodes. Has to be remembered that Zora is basically Sphere Data + The Ship. The Sphere wanted a home to transmit its data to before it died. In a way Zora is the developing progeny of that Sphere. It was capable of defending itself. The entire reason they are in the 32nd century is due to the failure of self-destruct and the need to find another way to get the data away from Control.
In that context, it does make sense that Zora is developing self awareness, emotional growth and all that. She's a living thing and her "life" is extending into the ship itself. There is something of a symbiotic relationship between her and the crew, but it if it is to flourish it has to go beyond that, so her developing friendships is a healthy next stage.
I (god help me) have seen a lot of the FB and youtuber complaints about this. I think they expect that Data was some paradigm set in stone for how all non-threatening AI's are to develop, or else they read the cliff notes for Calypso and assume Zora developed her consciousness during her 1000 year solo stint.
I was rewatching some of the later season 2 episodes. Has to be remembered that Zora is basically Sphere Data + The Ship. The Sphere wanted a home to transmit its data to before it died. In a way Zora is the developing progeny of that Sphere. It was capable of defending itself. The entire reason they are in the 32nd century is due to the failure of self-destruct and the need to find another way to get the data away from Control.
In that context, it does make sense that Zora is developing self awareness, emotional growth and all that. She's a living thing and her "life" is extending into the ship itself. There is something of a symbiotic relationship between her and the crew, but it if it is to flourish it has to go beyond that, so her developing friendships is a healthy next stage.
I (god help me) have seen a lot of the FB and youtuber complaints about this. I think they expect that Data was some paradigm set in stone for how all non-threatening AI's are to develop, or else they read the cliff notes for Calypso and assume Zora developed her consciousness during her 1000 year solo stint.
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Loyalty and protection.
A
Amaris
Guest
Excellent.
THIS is what I wanted to see, and I finally got to see it. The complex emotional connections between the crew, dealing with the equivalent of sensory overload from the "nothingness" that lies beyond the self? Dealing with specters from the past that haunt us at our most vulnerable moments? Emotions that can either weaken us or strengthen us depending upon where we focus our energy. It's all well played out here, and with Zora, of all people, at the center.
I seriously enjoyed how this developed. It felt fluid, organic, and I think it worked exceptionally well. It honestly made me forget the 5 light year wide anomaly itself, which is no small feat. The whole episode was allegorical.
Gray finally gets a chance to shine, and I am definitely here for it. Also, me watching Owo and Detmer together in the gym? Head canon confirmed.
Zora has a lovely singing voice.
9/10.
THIS is what I wanted to see, and I finally got to see it. The complex emotional connections between the crew, dealing with the equivalent of sensory overload from the "nothingness" that lies beyond the self? Dealing with specters from the past that haunt us at our most vulnerable moments? Emotions that can either weaken us or strengthen us depending upon where we focus our energy. It's all well played out here, and with Zora, of all people, at the center.
I seriously enjoyed how this developed. It felt fluid, organic, and I think it worked exceptionally well. It honestly made me forget the 5 light year wide anomaly itself, which is no small feat. The whole episode was allegorical.
Gray finally gets a chance to shine, and I am definitely here for it. Also, me watching Owo and Detmer together in the gym? Head canon confirmed.
Zora has a lovely singing voice.
9/10.
Why were they so loyal though? We rarely got to see the crew reflect or talk about the moments that bonded them. One can speculate that the war and all the adventures we did see bound them, but arguably those could also be reasons to tear them apart as well.
Granted one could make these arguments to some extent about other Trek series, but none of them had a crew making this kind of choice, almost without blinking. Certainly every Trek has had crewmembers, or a majority of the crew, willing to risk it all, but for all the bridge crew (and it was also mentioned most of the crew-I didn't know that) to do so, I wish we had gotten to see more of them bonding as a group to make that decision make more sense. It would've been great to see more of the crew balk at the idea and stay behind, besides Tyler (who I imagine was more of a narrative decision to keep him around for that purported Section 31 series).
If anything, Tyler I could see willing to go because he had very little to stay behind for, since he couldn't be with his son, and it's doubtful he would want to reunite with any of his human family, that is if there were any left. Conversely, it made little sense for Mirror Georgiou to go, which necessitated that return to the Mirror Universe to keep her in the game for the Section 31 series I surmise. Though, it made little sense for Saru to make the jump, and he's one of the characters that did get the kind of development I wish to see for more DISCO characters. Emperor Georgiou also got that character development, and I didn't get her choice to stay, but I thought how they wrote her out of the series worked well enough.
It's also strange to me, and a missed opportunity, not to see some crew members struggling with remorse, regret, or even resentment over their decisions.
I should say more here, because to the writers credit, we saw Detmer experiencing some PTSD last year and Tilly feeling out of place this year. We've also seen Nhan and Saru reconnect with their peoples, and also Burnham as well in "Unification Part III". And with Culber taking on being ship's counselor that speaks the idea, and hope, that we do see more of the internal struggles of the crew as they adjust to living a thousand years in the future.
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While I appreciate the curiosity that isn't the story or the focus. But, my feelings is that it is about what Pike said at the beginning of Season 2 about what Starfleet is and means to be a part of the crew. No one is left behind. So, a crew that had been through what they had together feels that need to remain together. It makes as much sense as any other Trek crew.
Her connection to Michael is all the reason.
Perhaps so. But, watching the crew, seeing that almost familial interaction, the sense of loyalty makes sense to me. But, it won't be touched upon because that isn't the story.
Fair enough about Georgiou and her connection to Michael. I didn't think it was built up enough, or well enough, by that time in the series, but by Georgiou's exit I could see it. I do see glimmers of that familial interaction, but it's taken time for the writers to wring it out of their scripts. Perhaps I should give the actors kudos for doing more with perhaps what they are given.
Good point as well about what Pike said, and while I see what you're saying, I personally didn't feel it with this crew. The other Trek crews I got it when they went to hell and back for each other, especially TOS, TNG, and DS9. But with DISCO it's more telling than showing. I remember the episode where Airiam died. I think the writers wanted us to feel there was this great loss but they hadn't done the work to justify the sadness. It also reminds me of how the crew was reminiscing fondly about Emperor Georgiou after she left. I feel two ways about that. The first was it was more telling than showing because mostly they showed her being rude to everyone but Burnham (and perhaps Culber) therefore not endearing (but that could be a case of Georgiou's a jerk, but she's our jerk). The second for me is that it speaks to these characters doing things behind the scenes that the audience isn't privy to and that makes them feel more three dimensional, that life goes on when we aren't looking. It hasn't felt much like these characters had much going on otherwise, but that tidbit about Georgiou did speak to that for me.
I think back about to the too short time we spent with the Shenzhou crew, and while not much attention was given to them, I felt that camaraderie a lot more. It's only in DISCO's fourth season that I'm feeling it more regarding the Discovery crew.
Bear in mind that a familial feel doesn't always mean warm and loving. It can mean incredibly deep down commitment, to the point of sacrifice, even if the people don't necessarily like each other. But, to your larger point, there are a lot of little moments throughout Discovery's run, between Detmer's little look at Burnham when she first comes aboard Discovery, to Burnham and Linus interacting, Detmer and Owo's looks, Bryce's comments, all add up to this group that is intensely loyal. Georgiou may have been a right bitch to the crew but she was still a part of the crew. And that's sufficient for me.
Mileage will vary.
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