Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x04 - "All Is Possible"

[fireproof78]

By the 29th century you would think everyone would have medical nanobots in their blood that automatically heal injury (maybe a Borg origin story). I get that they moved to the 31st century to get past all the canon which is fine, but I wish they portrayed the world more dystopian where technology actually took several steps back relative to the 24th century. If you advance the technology too much it becomes impossible to write a good story because the technology can solve any problem. It's like the Superman conundrum.

Well, that was part of the goal of the Burn was to limit some technological development, as well as the diminished sharing of information, the general mistrust of other worlds, and struggles in maintaining basic operations across an interstellar scale. How effective it was is of course up to debate.

Personally, the jump to the 32nd century was too much in terms of both connectivity for the heroes and technological changes. I agree that there is the Superman problem, though that is one that Star Trek has suffered from in some capacity for a while now. But, the time jump made it more apparent.

Personally, I'm willing to work within the limits while watching the show. But the 32nd century still grates a little, and the use of technology to solve all problems annoys me.

 

[Amaris]

Well, that was part of the goal of the Burn was to limit some technological development, as well as the diminished sharing of information, the general mistrust of other worlds, and struggles in maintaining basic operations across an interstellar scale. How effective it was is of course up to debate.

Personally, the jump to the 32nd century was too much in terms of both connectivity for the heroes and technological changes. I agree that there is the Superman problem, though that is one that Star Trek has suffered from in some capacity for a while now. But, the time jump made it more apparent.

Personally, I'm willing to work within the limits while watching the show. But the 32nd century still grates a little, and the use of technology to solve all problems annoys me.

Yeah, Star Trek has always been science fiction mixed with a little fantasy to round out the edges, but the 32nd century technology essentially turns the show into a fantasy show with sci-fi aesthetics. I honestly think it was a leap too far ahead. One of the reasons I loved Star Trek (especially TOS) was that the series took place a couple hundred years in the future, and so we could see our current squabbles would be sorted out and things would get better.

By the 32nd century, so much of humanity has lived and died, and lived and died again, that I have no connection to it. These people are as alien to me as someone from the year 900 would be to us. There are no handholds for me to grasp, because the relatable crew from the same era as TOS has adapted to this new world, seemingly fairly quickly.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Season 4 medical consists of "he died". Doctor Culber is Counselor Culber. Doctor Pollard barely has a presence.

So instead of using their Emergency ___ Hologram technology to "Save Lives".

The Writers conveniently forgot about it for cheap points at plot drama.

 

[Deks]

By the 29th century you would think everyone would have medical nanobots in their blood that automatically heal injury (maybe a Borg origin story). I get that they moved to the 31st century to get past all the canon which is fine, but I wish they portrayed the world more dystopian where technology actually took several steps back relative to the 24th century. If you advance the technology too much it becomes impossible to write a good story because the technology can solve any problem. It's like the Superman conundrum.

I already suggested that WAY back of course... but Trek writers don't go that route.

 

[Lord Garth]

Since Mary Wiseman said this isn't the last we've seen of Tilly on the show, I'm guessing two things:

1. Since Discovery is now regularly docked at Starfleet Command and we see Vance every episode (except this one) and now Rillak, characters don't have to be assigned to Discovery to be a regular part of DSC. So the show can cut back to showing Tilly at Starfleet Academy and develop a storyline there.

2. Starfleet Cadets (possibly the ones we've just seen) will be assigned to Discovery, and Tilly would be the one training them onboard the ship. She'd be responsible for Field Training.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Well, Discovery and its writers simply aren't interested in anything about the science fiction part of the show. It could take place in 2180, 2280, 2380, or 3180. The timeframe doesn't matter, and neither does the technology - they just write the characters to do what they "always do in Trek" regardless of the actual setting. This is at least the third episode this season where someone dies and there is only a rudimentary attempt to save them: "well all I have are these cloth bandages in this medkit, so I guess this guy's a goner."

If I had to synthesize a conclusion about the show from the above points, I would say the writers just don't care about the WHY of anything nor the implications of they things they put on screen. They are interested in hitting these character moments for their main characters, not in the coherency of the story or plot, or in fleshing out or fully using the future setting - it's just window dressing or framing for their character beats. Which for the most part are good character beats, just a little insubstantial in terms of the bigger picture.

Eh, I fully believed they had the apocalypse ("Burn") happen to massively reset the technology level.

 

[Lord Garth]

So instead of using their Emergency ___ Hologram technology to "Save Lives".

The Writers conveniently forgot about it for cheap points at plot drama.

I'm guessing knowledge and technology was lost when everything blew up during The Burn. I always treat it like The Burn brought the galaxy back to the space version of the Middle Ages and only now are they recovering. They've just entered the Renaissance. At least In-Universe.

In real life production, we just have to accept that "800 years later" from PIC to DSC is the new "80 years later" from the TOS Movies to TNG. And they used The Burn as an excuse for it. I'm willing to suspend my disbelief.

 

[Deks]

So instead of using their Emergency ___ Hologram technology to "Save Lives".

The Writers conveniently forgot about it for cheap points at plot drama.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Eli used in a sort of medical capacity in SF HQ in the 32nd century?
But yes, I agree the use of EMH seems to have been forgotten.
Givent the Burn and overall resource shortages... and how much holos were used in the HQ, you'd think the EMH's would be omnipresent.

 

[Deks]

I'm guessing knowledge and technology was lost when everything blew up during The Burn. I always treat it like The Burn brought the galaxy back to the space version of the Middle Ages and only now are they recovering. They've just entered the Renaissance. At least In-Universe.

In real life production, we just have to accept that "800 years later" from PIC to DSC is the new "80 years later" from the TOS Movies to TNG. And they used The Burn as an excuse for it. I'm willing to suspend my disbelief.

Except for the problem of that there was no regression (and this would have been extremely unlikely unless the whole UFP was destroyed) and the Burn couldn't have caused that.

All member planets were left intact with highly advanced technology (and SF/UFP databases on those planets and leftover stations SURVIVED)... only ships (and some stations) that had active Dilithium and running Warp cores ended up destroyed (majority of the fleet).

Plus, one cannot (canonically) reconcile 800 years post 24th century... along with commonly stated lines that 'everything is far more advanced in the future compared to 23rd century Discovery' and the fact that what we have seen barely looks like 80 years passed since the 24th century... and in some cases, various uses of subspace technology from 24th century are no longer seen.

Doesn't exactly jive.

They should have provided a clearer explanation behind this obvious problem. But since they hadn't done that... I would instead prefer the writers make more effort in creating stories which actually don't ignore past technologies but in fact USE them.

The Giotto reference from S3 was mostly described as a metaphor in providing 'hope for the future'... not technological regression.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, Star Trek has always been science fiction mixed with a little fantasy to round out the edges, but the 32nd century technology essentially turns the show into a fantasy show with sci-fi aesthetics. I honestly think it was a leap too far ahead. One of the reasons I loved Star Trek (especially TOS) was that the series took place a couple hundred years in the future, and so we could see our current squabbles would be sorted out and things would get better.

By the 32nd century, so much of humanity has lived and died, and lived and died again, that I have no connection to it. These people are as alien to me as someone from the year 900 would be to us. There are no handholds for me to grasp, because the relatable crew from the same era as TOS has adapted to this new world, seemingly fairly quickly.

That's a fair point, but since the crew, especially Burnham, were my handhold, I have less an issue with grasping this new world, aside from the occasional "technology is magic" style that can be utilized. But, that's not new to Trek.

In real life production, we just have to accept that "800 years later" from PIC to DSC is the new "80 years later" from the TOS Movies to TNG. And they used The Burn as an excuse for it. I'm willing to suspend my disbelief.

Bolded for emphasis. Part of my engagement with Star Trek is how far am I willing to suspend disbelief, especially as it relates to human connections. For me, as much as the tech is fun, the characters matter far more, the drama matters far more, than a realistic extrapolation of future technology. Obviously that will vary from person to person, but I am no longer surprised by tech being forgotten in Trek. It is a part of the world now, and I am OK with that.

 

[ToddCam]

I agree that even a chest impalement could also be fixed (and the nanites thing mentioned above makes a lot of sense), but it allows for better suspension of disbelief for me. Especially if I take into account that Tilly has the perspective, even a year later, of someone from the 23rd century, and may just assume that his life could not be saved without placing him in suspended animation, which would require activation of the ship's functions.

 

[eschaton]

Discovery writers seem to have decided that by the time of The Burn, dilithum was used for everything, not simply FTL travel.

 

[Deks]

Discovery writers seem to have decided that by the time of The Burn, dilithum was used for everything, not simply FTL travel.

If I'm not mistaken, Dilithium was used in TOS as a power source too by A species... however, that wasn't the case for UFP in the 23rd or 24th century.
Dilithium was mainly used by SF as a regulator for M/AM reactions.

Also, Burnham mentioned that Dilithium supplies dried up 700 years after Disco left the 23rd century... that meant the time frame was roughly 2955 (late 30th century).

Surely SF and UFP would have projected when dilithium supplies would have dried up (approximately) at least a century before this and created contingency plans to intensify research into other (non Dilithium and M/AM) power sources well before this happened.

I mean, they are able to make projections about everyhting else (along with how many hypothetical casualties there would have been during the Dominion War) and were able to calculate exactusage behind planetary resources... you'd think that doing the same for Dilithium would have been prudent.

Plus, if Dilithium supplies 'dried up' by 2955, how come Earth had a stockpile of Dilithium... and for that matter how did SF/UFP, or any other power continue to function during the Temporal Wars?

We were led to think this was a Galaxy-wide issue - although given how Trek had a nasty habit of confusing known/accessible corner of the galaxy with the whole galaxy... it could also be this was a UFP specific issue?

 

[XCV330]

I forgot to add earlier, the Star Wars style screenwipe near the end of the episode was a fun little touch. So unexpected I had to rewind to make sure I saw it.

 

[cooleddie74]

I noticed that, too. It was kind of cool.

 

[eschaton]

If I'm not mistaken, Dilithium was used in TOS as a power source too by A species... however, that wasn't the case for UFP in the 23rd or 24th century.
Dilithium was mainly used by SF as a regulator for M/AM reactions.

Also, Burnham mentioned that Dilithium supplies dried up 700 years after Disco left the 23rd century... that meant the time frame was roughly 2955 (late 30th century).

Surely SF and UFP would have projected when dilithium supplies would have dried up (approximately) at least a century before this and created contingency plans to intensify research into other (non Dilithium and M/AM) power sources well before this happened.

I mean, they are able to make projections about everyhting else (along with how many hypothetical casualties there would have been during the Dominion War) and were able to calculate exactusage behind planetary resources... you'd think that doing the same for Dilithium would have been prudent.

Plus, if Dilithium supplies 'dried up' by 2955, how come Earth had a stockpile of Dilithium... and for that matter how did SF/UFP, or any other power continue to function during the Temporal Wars?

We were led to think this was a Galaxy-wide issue - although given how Trek had a nasty habit of confusing known/accessible corner of the galaxy with the whole galaxy... it could also be this was a UFP specific issue?

It clearly was not a UFP-specific issue, or else someone else would have rolled over the Federation. Maybe the Dominion? It was far enough away that we can be sure (unlike say the Klingons) that it likely never joined.

 

[XCV330]

Dried up doesn't mean nothing is left. Mineable tin deposits are much lower than they were 100 years ago, but there is still a small amount produced, now, for instance. There were probably other methods of travel still used, such as slipstream that didn't require dilithium. It was probably just far less convenient or safe.

As far as dilithium as a power source: if you really have this magical crystal that can help you power machines that violate current physical laws and go faster then light, you can easily make energy from them, even if just some simple Carnot heat engine, or perpetually rotating a dynamo, whatever, culminating in personal replicators, etc by the 24th century. Clearly by the 32nd they are being far more circumspect in their power usage. For instance the ah, fact that food replicators now use easily obtained base matter instead of just converting pure energy to matter.

 

[DarKush]

I’ve never been a Tilly fan, so I was gritting my teeth over this week’s episode when I saw how Tilly-centric it was going to be. But I got to say that it wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be, including Tilly’s parts. I wasn’t expecting the ending of the episode and Tilly leaving the ship and I thought how they handled it was low key but emotional and earned an emotional response in ways that Airiam’s or even Emperor Georgiou’s goodbyes didn’t. I was expecting that Tilly would get the Worf Season 4 finale treatment, but DISCO reined it in and that was fine.

Tilly really annoyed me a lot in the first two seasons, I thought the character was too extra. And I thought the idea to promote her to first officer last season was insane, but the show did a good job developing the relationship between Saru and Tilly and Mary Wiseman handled the change well, so it made it more tolerable. And in this episode, I found the idea of Tilly taking command actually being more plausible, it felt for the first time like she really was aiming for command; and then the episode yanks that away (for now).

I was okay with the cadets in peril plot, though we’ve seen episodes like that in just about every Trek before. I liked the snatches of world building we got in those scenes, though I wish that they had diversified the cadets more than they did. While I found Tilly’s solution to end the interpersonal conflict a bit pat, I get what the episode was aiming to do.

I also felt that the Vulcan/Federation political impasse was also resolved-for now-a bit too easily. Does Burnham really have the time to devote to a committee while also trying to put the Federation back together? I did like the exploration of some of the nettlesome politics around rejoining the Federation but wish it had been explored in a different way. I enjoyed the T’Rina and Saru scenes and look forward to seeing more of those.

I have conflicted feelings about the Book storyline. I do like that they have shifted Culber into a ship’s counselor’s role; he shined most for me last season when he started dispensing advice and I think it’s a good fit for the character. As for Book, I should applaud the writers for not sweeping how long the grieving process can be, but I can’t lie and say I want to see Book go through this every week.

Overall, I have conflicted feelings about DISCO Season 4. None of the episodes thus far have knocked it out the park for me. I should feel better about this season because the writers are doing some of the things, I’ve long wanted them to do, by focusing more on the supporting characters, doing more world building, and actually having Discovery help rebuild the Federation. They even have pushed the big mystery into the background-though they couldn’t stop themselves from going there in the first place (there was no need for a big mystery, rebuilding the Federation was enough of a hook)-and so with it being more like hanging over everything. If whatever caused it is underwhelming or disappointing (like the Burn was for me) it might not drag down the whole season because the focus hasn’t been so much on the crew finding the solution-yet-but with them coping with a lot of personal problems, and now political problems.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Did everybody forget about the body of the poor cadet with that chest wound?

We know Seven of Nine was able to revive a dead person that was dead for 73 hrs after initial death thanks to Borg Nanoprobes. I wouldn't be surprised if we had Federation Nanoprobes by this point.

It definitely didn't feel like 73 hrs has passed by.

The fact that they're willing to bring back the Bajoran Chief Security Officer in Lower Decks after he died in an explosion.

Why can't they save that poor cadet?

Beam his body and shuttle back up.

Use the Nanoprobes on him.

It's not like his head was smooshed into chunky salsa.

The brain seemed intact, the medical personnel on the armstrong should try to save his life.

 

[XCV330]

Did everybody forget about the body of the poor cadet with that chest wound?

He's in Red Shirt Heaven watched over by St. Connolly of the Debris Field
that or he's Holographic Command Training Death Dummy. They need one.