Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x03 - "Choose to Live"

[Deks]

No it didn't. If they are all about absolute candor specifically because the Romulans are sneaky and secretive then they really serve little purpose in NiVar where they could just align with the Vulcans who are absolutely absolute candor merchants (yes Vulcans hide truth but so do Qowat Milat)
They were poor in PIC and even more crap now

In all honesty, I couldn't understand why wouldn't that Qowat Milat nun decide to contact UFP/SF about the alien moon she found in the first place?
It's one of SF's mandates to provide aid to species in distress... so I'm not sure why did she think she had to do all this on her own... worst yet, she went and stole Dilithium from a SF ship... she didn't even try to explain the situation to the captain/commander who would relay the info to HQ and probably be redirected with another fresh batch of dilithium to power that moon ship.

 

[Tuskin38]

They explained it in the episode.

 

[Garak234]

Overall, there was a lot to like about this episode:
- USS Credence is a great ship. Looks very Starfleet.
- Ni'Var rejoining the Federation
- Everything on Ni'var
- Qowat Milat. Also, N'Vini had a good lost cause with a scifi element.
- A hibernation ship using an entire moon. Cool idea.
- Beautiful cinematography especially Ni'Var and the hibernation moon. Love the Science Academy towers on Ni'Var.
- Good acting from everyone
- The mind meld with Book. Book making peace with his loss.
- The idea of incorporating a previous Thrill host's mind into a new synthetic body so that the current host can interact with the previous host in the flesh is a cool concept.
- Vance's orchestra analogy to Michael.

Honestly, critics who say that Discovery is not doing Star Trek scifi don't know what they are talking about. This episode had 2 good Trek scifi ideas: the hibernation moon and incorporating a mind into a synthetic body.

Not so good IMO:
- The First Officer on the Credence is an idiot. He had no chance against the Qowat Milat. He should have let them have the dilithium. He sacrificed his life for nothing especially since the dilithium had a tracker. If he did not know about the tracker, why didn't Starflett tell him? Better would have been to just let the Qowat Milat have the dilithium and then follow them back. Also seemed out of character since Starfleet tends to be more brains before brawn. I feel it was only done to justify Michael and mom going on the mission.
- Logically, I don't think Tilly really belonged on that mission. She seemed out of place. You don't send a science cadet, with no fighting skills, who is clumsy on a dangerous mission to apprehend a killer nun-ninja. Realistically, the Qowat Milat should have killed her when they boarded Book's ship.
- The sentimentalism and characters expressing their feelings all the time. The show really does that a lot. It almost feels like a soap opera sometimes.

Grade: B

He could be a former non com from frontier space so he used a lot more force in his career, when dealing with competitors prior to joining Starfleet. The recruitment pool isn’t as talented as it was pre burn for more on this see
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/how...-before-the-reopening-of-starfleet-ac.309726/

 

[Fateor]

Please give me a TNG/DS9 episode where - when some nefarious person/group beamed over - they immediately put them in a containment field/force field/beamed them into the brig; or there wasn't a Trek fight where Security was injured/killed. On your last claim; I did provide concrete examples showing your claim was in error.

*Ignores attempt at goalpost shift*

The Voyager Episode Equinox, where the intruding aliens are instantly bubbled by forcefields once they adjust things to properly detect/react to their appearance.

Of course, this is ignoring everything else that's wrong with the scene... Like...

Why were the swords even capable of cutting through their uniforms given it's the 32nd century and we can make stab proof clothing now?
Why didn't they have personal forcefields on?
Why wasn't there armed security around for the transfer since the heists were known about?
Why did the captain try to grab a phaser instead of using his combadge thingy to create one?
Why didn't they transport the Dilithium down in a shielded shuttle since the heists were known about?
Why didn't the Credence stop J'Vini's ship from escaping with the Dilithium?
Why didn't they use their 32nd century medical tech to save the captain?
Why did they need to grab the dilithium by hand instead of just directly beaming it off the Credence?

I could go on... But well... I really don't need to.

Also no, you really didn't.

 

[Garak234]

Why didn’t the captain in the beginning of the episode call any reinforcements?
(My theory is that ships with less then a 3 dozen if not a lot less are alot less common in the 32nd century due to the following less obvious factors(besides manpower shortages, anti UFP sentiment ect), advancement in AI, economically easier on ship power for less people, more safe to have a few specialists then a large ship(which would be even more costly if lost and might be irreplaceable with breakdown in coms)
We see lots of small UFP outposts similar to this, such as the deep space repair station with Nalas, Spaceport Develoka(had a few dozen aids and probably a similar amount of ship crew), and now the USS credence that support this theory. So the crew that fought the rebel Kwilat Nilat comprised the entire crew of the ship.) though the age of the tech might explain why the captain didn’t put up a containment field(though he might have feared that the raiders would just beam out with the personal transporters. (Or he was attempting a show of strength with the planet below as the audience). Though my favorite theory is that he was a former N.C.O from a formally isolated UFP stronghold(possibly captaining a supply ship) who was tough and self reliant by upbringing and responded to raiders and challenges to his authority by couriers with more force less talk and thought he could rush them, (probably favoured fast initiative when he was a relay commander), was put by Starfleet in a similar role following season 3 and given his commission, and just did the type of plan that might work agianst Dilithium raiders but not agianst the Kwilat Milat, and failed in the process of charging Nvini losing all his crew in the process.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

To suggest that the Qowat Milat are somehow redundant

Well their swords certainly are. Especially that over the shoulder sheath

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

*Ignores attempt at goalpost shift*

The Voyager Episode Equinox, where the intruding aliens are instantly bubbled by forcefields once they adjust things to properly detect/react to their appearance.

Of course, this is ignoring everything else that's wrong with the scene... Like...

Why were the swords even capable of cutting through their uniforms given it's the 32nd century and we can make stab proof clothing now?
Why didn't they have personal forcefields on?
Why wasn't there armed security around for the transfer since the heists were known about?
Why did the captain try to grab a phaser instead of using his combadge thingy to create one?
Why didn't they transport the Dilithium down in a shielded shuttle since the heists were known about?
Why didn't the Credence stop J'Vini's ship from escaping with the Dilithium?
Why didn't they use their 32nd century medical tech to save the captain?
Why did they need to grab the dilithium by hand instead of just directly beaming it off the Credence?

I could go on... But well... I really don't need to.

Also no, you really didn't.

But but but Bermantrek did or didn't do something bla bla bla.
It's getting real tedious now how all criticism of DIS is attacked with a counter attack on previous Trek

 

[Yistaan]

Well their swords certainly are. Especially that over the shoulder sheath

The next time a Qowat Milat shows up, I want someone to pull an Indiana Jones and just vaporize them with their phaser.

 

[Garak234]

They probably thought automated defenses were overkill because First Officer Chokeslam was on duty. He had the ninjas under control until J'Vini showed up.

And speaking of J'Vini's hench-ninjas-- where did they go? Did they just fly away at some point? One of them killed the Qowat Milat nun!

Whatever species they were from were militaristic at one point, may have fought Starfleet in the past pre burn.

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

It's getting real tedious now how all criticism of DIS is attacked with a counter attack on previous Trek

That’s funny, ‪‪I find it exceedingly tedious to see criticisms of Discovery made by direct comparison to previous iterations of Trek while holding Discovery to an entirely different set of standards.

 

[fireproof78]

The next time a Qowat Milat shows up, I want someone to pull an Indiana Jones and just vaporize them with their phaser.

Too cliche.

That’s funny, ‪‪I find it exceedingly tedious to see criticisms of Discovery made by direct comparison to previous iterations of Trek while holding Discovery to an entirely different set of standards.

Well, Discovery must be more like Trek and recognizable as Star Trek while being better and the most prestigious streaming show ever.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

That’s funny, ‪‪I find it exceedingly tedious to see criticisms of Discovery made by direct comparison to previous iterations of Trek while holding Discovery to an entirely different set of standards.

That happens too and is also tedious like for instance all this "real Trek" crap. But don't forget that older Trek was ridiculed mercilessly too. The uniforms especially the women's, the silly shaking of the camera during battle, Shatners antics, double fist punch, flying round the sun backwards and so on. DIS will be picked apart for every inch of meat like all Trek and people need to get over that (unless it's the racist, homophobic, misogynistic stuff)

 

[Garak234]

They probably thought automated defenses were overkill because First Officer Chokeslam was on duty. He had the ninjas under control until J'Vini showed up.

And speaking of J'Vini's hench-ninjas-- where did they go? Did they just fly away at some point? One of them killed the Qowat Milat nun!

Starfleet deals with a lot of raiders, independents, and mercantile exchanges so would probably deal with the ninja raiders with some established routine protocol
, either Starfleet forgot about the mercs or the mercs are just going to be mopped up by a 3rd tier Starfleet vessel in an insignificant operation, or attempts will be to punish the cartel.(either by imprisoning leader, reaching an understanding of sorts, or arresting the cartel.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Starfleet deals with a lot of raiders, independents, and mercantile exchanges so would probably deal with the ninja raiders with some established routine protocol
, either Starfleet forgot about the mercs or the mercs are just going to be mopped up by a 3rd tier Starfleet vessel in an insignificant operation, or attempts will be to punish the cartel.

Sounds like a job for 32nd century Ceritos

 

[fireproof78]

DIS will be picked apart for every inch of meat like all Trek and people needto get over that.

No, I don't need to. I appreciate the suggestion but just like people won't stop watching a show they clearly loathe, with a lead character they hate, written by people they feel insulted by, I will keep speaking my mind, hold Trek to the same standard and be thoroughly annoyed by double standards. And probably use some absolute candor.

 

[eschaton]

Want drama? The DS9 crew basically condemned an entire planet of their future descendants die en masse so that Odo can save Kira from dying in the Defiant crash that leads to their future descendants being born in the first place.

Now THAT'S Trek at its most heartwarming and irresponsible!

Uhh...no. They were going to repeat the time loop. Uptime Odo sabotaged it because he couldn't bear for Kira to die again.

 

[cooleddie74]

They did sorta condemn the descendants to extinction after they'd built a successful society of their own so this is one of those episodes or films that's often pointed out as the self-centered emotions of one character wiping lots of innocent lives from existence. You don't have to agree with categorizing the episode that way but many do and they have a point.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

The show continues to fire on all cylinders. Another solid episode. President T'rina is an amazing character and my favourite part of the episode was her interactions with Book. Saru needs to ask T'rina to help him water his plants already.

 

[nic3636]

Why didn’t the captain in the beginning of the episode call any reinforcements?

Captain - "Please send reinforcements, we are being attacked, I don't think we will make it"
Dispatch - "How many ships in the attacking fleet?"
Captain - "Well, there aren't really any ships"
Dispatch - "What is the nature of the threat?"
Captain - "One person with a sword"
Dispatch - "Don't you have phasers?"
Captain - "She's really fast, please send help!"
Dispatch - "..." *wonders how he became a captain*

 

[nic3636]

But it would be nice to actually SEE tech consistency in Trek.
Set up guidelines where each show in a given era should work with and work the story around that.


On Ds9 that was only a problem because the station was Cardassian in origin.
If you noticed, most of the UI on Ds9 was Cardassian... suggesting that the station was NEVER purged of Cardassian software 100%.
And Cardassians love their booby traps it seems.
The chances of a 'bad software update' are pretty much a rarity on SF ships... and besides, NOTHING is necessarily 100% safe.
The crews take chances every single time they go to Warp or use any kind of system

Point is, with that analogy, every single system on the ship can easily become a problem under the right circumstances... and you can't be living under that kind of paranoid state... which would mean, you wouldn't be cut out for Starfleet or serving on ships in general (also, Trek Computers DO run a huge number of things on board).

The automated defensive systems would only come online when necessary (when the ship is engaged in combat - just as a state of readiness to fight off potential invaders). They can pop out of the walls and would ALWAYS be set to heavy stun (SF default)... never vaporize (in fact, I'd just prevent internal automated systems from being able to achieve high enough yields to vaporize people - aka, the vaporize setting wouldn't exist for automated internal systems).

Forcefields automatically popping up to contain boarding parties should also be a thing... but SF ships should really have transporter inhibitors integrated onboard which would also come online during yellow and red alerts - and only authorized crew members can let certain aliens beam in or out.

Discovery was an outlier because I scoffed at the notion that the writers went into a direction of a sentient AI that wants to destroy everyone... an outdated and stupid trope I hoped to NEVER see in Trek again... it was just badly written alltogether.

And besides, SF ships in the 24th century demonstrated internal defensive and offensive capabilities.... the writers simply forgot about them over time or just ignored them.

You bring up some good points. I suppose you could leverage existing ship systems for internal security as well (artificial gravity, life support, I think you mentioned the transporter in a prior post). So yeah, a nun with a sword probably shouldn't be able to waltz on board a Starfleet ship unless she hacked the ships systems, had some kind of superior evasion tech, or something like that.